Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
[flagged]
@dang, can you please do something to stop propaganda accounts?
ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
191–200 of 1001 posts
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#192I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…
The US, under whichever administration, is in a very difficult position here. If the US stops all support immediately, this could be the end of Israel. Would that be just? I see a president carefully dancing on the thin line of supporting the Israel state while using the US leverage to stop the war (latest example: sending the CIA chief to the negotiating table). But this needs to be done without enabling Israel's bi…
> If the US stops all support immediately, this could be the end of Israel.
How would Israel disappear? Palestine is clearly no match for them - who else is expected to suddenly move in?
I certainly think we could stop funding their military while still pledging to support them if someone actually tries to invade.
Keep in mind, Israel has it's own defense budget - it's not like it's military just disappears when US funding dries up
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#193There is another player. China is interested in resolving the Gaza conflict.[1] China's position is that, since the existing world order, the International Court of Justice and the United States, can't resolve this, China should become involved. Chinese container shipping lines COSCO and OOCL have suspended trade with Israel. China has already provided some aid to Gaza.[2] Gaza has a sizable coastline, and China has…
This has exactly zero chances of happening. Israel would never let anyone they don’t approve of get anywhere near Gaza.
That is definitely Israel’s intention, but suppose China did go for it.
Does Israel have the stones for direct airstrike on Chinese fleet? It’s gonna get messy. It’s a big game of chicken, I am not sure who I would bet on.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#194Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't there a rule about modifying inflamatory titles? The article title "Top UN court orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza but stops short of ordering cease-fire" is less inflamatory, and will help prevent comments from going sideways. Or you can switch to https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-braces-worl... if you want the title to match the HTML title.
I don't see how it's inflammatory. It seems strictly neutral to me, with the possible exception of the word 'demands'.
Because the ceasefire was the number one demand by the South Africa. And they lost that, but the current title completely ignores that part, and instead highlights only the part that Israel lost.
That's like exactly the definition of the opposite of neutral: ignoring the part Israel won and only focusing on the part they lost.
And the fact that it ignores the major part of the case and focuses only on the minor part, only makes it more egregious.
Even the actual news source themselves changed the title, and for some reason you consider the HTML title more important?
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#195Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.
Zionism is an ideology that took inspiration from the British empire. It was intended to be "something colonial" and pre-dated the atrocities of WW2. The fascist atrocities in WW2 can be interpreted as colonial tactics applied to Europeans, after all the British had been doing extremely bloody concentration camps in Africa and starved India during WW2. For some reason, Africa doesn't get the same play. I wonder why.…
[flagged]
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#196Perhaps I am unlearned in this area but I am unclear why the Jewish state, after its people experienced the atrocities of World War II, would act in this manner toward the Palestinians. Can anyone shed light on this? I understand completely the need to rid the world of Hamas terrorists, but in the process they have shown a reckless disregard (to put it mildly) for Palestinian people and their wellbeing.
If you look at the Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention's statement [1], they call both the Hamas attack and the current Israeli action Genocidal. They characterise genocidal attacks in terms of not just their factual effect, but the intentional psychological effect of an "massacre of symbols of group life", in which the genocidaires deliberately try to symbolically erase the other group, in ways which are hugely…
> So you have to realise that Israelis are not thinking normally right now. Even though the Hamas attack has in military terms "culminated", and Israel's military is many times more powerful, their trauma leads them to believe that there is a real, present threat of extinction of the Israeli state and their own nation and families.
I think that they think there is a real, persistent threat of Hamas continuing to make this kind of attack. Hamas has consistently said so, so Israel has reasonable grounds for thinking so. Hamas has even said that they won't settle for a two-state solution - they demand the destruction of Israel.
So if you're an Israeli, that leaves you very few choices: stay and accept being massacred every so often, shut down the country and leave, or destroy Hamas. Unsurprisingly, they choose the third option.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#197Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't. Mosul's civilian population were Iraqi citizens, the conflict was much larger, lasted a lot longer, used smaller munitions, resulted in a lot more military deaths and significantly less civilian deaths. This is despite the enemy being significantly better trained, better equipped, better logistics, years of preparation and less intelligence by the anti-ISIL coalition.
> resulted in a lot more military deaths Yeah, they lost a lot of infantry forces and it's probably the reason there were less civilian deaths.
Well, yeah. That's kind of how wars are supposed to go. Soldiers die so that civilians don't.
If you kill tons of civilians from the other side to save soldiers from your own side then you end up in the ICJ.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#198Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#199I do think that their future Feb ruling is going to call for a ceasefire. If they called for one now, Israel & especially the US were just going to ignore it and reduce the power of the court. Israel has created a beast that I don't think they can control themselves. I do think that the court is going to get more legitimacy after they explicitly tell Israel to __chill__, for Israel not to chill, and then get the ceas…
Trump wouldn't intensify the genocide. Not just because Israel currently has carte blanche to do what it wants, but also because of personal animosity with Netanyahu.
Re: ICJ orders Israel to prevent genocide in Gaza, stops short of ordering ceasefire
#200I usually refrain from making much political commentary. I will say this: SA is a deeply troubled country, but for once I think the ruling government has actually done a good thing by pursuing this.
> South Africa asks ICC to exempt it from Putin arrest
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2YY1E6/
SA does not really present itself as an earnest or true actor in the sphere oh human rights.