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What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

arstechnica.com

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Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#221

Post by boxed »

krisoft wrote: post #145
boxed wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just saying something is "long form" because you counted the words is silly. This is Ars Technica. They aren't long because some fifth grade teacher gave them a minimum amount of pages. If the article has some length, it's because it takes the subject seriously and doesn't compromise on nuance and context just for clicks.

> If the article has some length, it's because it takes the subject seriously and doesn't compromise on nuance and context just for clicks. And yet it feels fluffy. The incident could be described in a single paragraph. The response could be an other. The organisation of the crew training and how it effected the incident could be third, while future instances when the lock was used could be a fourth. So about 800 wor…

It's funny that you complain about that article was too fluffy... by writing such an enormously long comment.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#222

Post by krisoft »

JohnBooty wrote: post #190
krisoft wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the article has some length, it's because it takes the subject seriously and doesn't compromise on nuance and context just for clicks. And yet it feels fluffy. The incident could be described in a single paragraph. The response could be an other. The organisation of the crew training and how it effected the incident could be third, while future instances when the lock was used could be a fourth. So about 800 wor…

Because the article is going on and on while not answering any of the basic questions I have: what did factually happen in the cabin? Did he just say what he said and then went sulking? Did he move closer to the hatch? Was he trained on how to operate the hatch? How long did the fix take? What were the consequences on the schedule? What were the consequences on the experiment itself? (Did it perform as intended after…

> If the alternative was to simply not publish the article

The alternative is to write a shorter article.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#223

Post by mzs »

keep320909 wrote: post #217
mzs wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What archives? I've just done some reading regarding Акияма Тоёхиро but saw no reference to a breakdown.

It was in a book by Karel Pacner, he studied Russian archives after they were declassified. Not sure what book.

I think you misremember. The opening of Russian archives was in in the mid '90s and here is an article coauthored by Pacner from 2007. It covers Tojohiro Akijama trip in full but does not mention any restraint pon the return trip:

- Akijama si vezl šest kamer a fotoaparát. Avšak let snášel obtížně, navíc mu jako silnému kuřákovi chyběly cigarety. Sověti požadovali za každou hodinu vysílání z vesmíru milion dolarů, to bylo i na Japonce příliš mnoho, proto reportér odvysílal pouze jednu desetiminutovou televizní relaci a dvě rozhlasové reportáže.

- Po přistání tvrdil, že má hlad, ale první, po čem sáhl, bylo pivo a cigareta.k let snášel obtížně, navíc mu jako silnému kuřákovi chyběly cigarety. …

I also believe there to be an error above cause when I was a child I felt that there were more than one broadcast, but that could be my own memory misleading me.

https://www.idnes.cz/technet/vesmir/kosmicka-stavebnice-mir-...

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#224

Post by cudgy »

“This [access to the hatch] is not a particularly pleasant issue to talk about, so NASA, SpaceX, and the people who fly on the vehicles generally don't. But it does seem like something the space community should probably have a discussion about as access to space broadens.”

The fact that NASA is afraid to address a real and possible failure point of a mission, because it is “not particularly pleasant” would worry me more than the hatch itself.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#225

Post by rbanffy »

gumby wrote: post #193
rbanffy wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only justification for human spaceflight at all is that humans can fix things that a robot can't yet. What is the point of space exploration if humans can't go? A robot can say a lot about radiation, wind speed, soil composition, and so on, but it can't tell you how it feels to look down into the Great Red Spot and picture a dozen Earths inside it. Or the sound regolith makes when you walk on the Moon. There ar…

> What is the point of space exploration if humans can't go? I don't know; what is the point of studying quantum mechanics if you can't see it? What is the point of studying insect embryology when you aren't an insect? I'm pretty fascinated by these 3B+ ly sized megastructures but I won't visit them (to the degree that "visit" would even make sense). Hell, what's the point of studying history when you can't go there…

> I don't know; what is the point of studying quantum mechanics if you can't see it?

Those are very different things. QM forms the basis of a lot of our modern technology. The greatest utility of understanding the geology of Mars is to guide possible human visits - and human visits are the best way to get a more complete understanding of an environment. Before the first lunar landings, we didn't even knew how we'd move in low gravity. Before experiencing zero-G, some people assumed we'd be unable to sleep, or very stressed by the free fall sensation. At the moment, we don't know if we can reproduce in any other environment that's not Earth. We don't know how wide a centrifuge needs to be for us to work in artificial gravity.

There are many questions we simply don't have answers for unless we venture outside our planetary comfort bubble.

We most likely won't be visiting 3B+ ly galactic walls, or even stars outside our immediate vicinity, at least not in the sense of "visit" that implies coming back to Earth, but someday we will want to hedge our planetary bets and settle other surfaces, natural or otherwise.

Most humans have the itch to explore, to see what's behind the mountain. It served us well in the past millions of years and I hope it will still work its magic.

A future where all humans live on Earth in a universe devoid of human life is depressing to me.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#226

Post by gumby »

rbanffy wrote: post #225
gumby wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the point of space exploration if humans can't go? I don't know; what is the point of studying quantum mechanics if you can't see it? What is the point of studying insect embryology when you aren't an insect? I'm pretty fascinated by these 3B+ ly sized megastructures but I won't visit them (to the degree that "visit" would even make sense). Hell, what's the point of studying history when you can't go there…

> I don't know; what is the point of studying quantum mechanics if you can't see it? Those are very different things. QM forms the basis of a lot of our modern technology. The greatest utility of understanding the geology of Mars is to guide possible human visits - and human visits are the best way to get a more complete understanding of an environment. Before the first lunar landings, we didn't even knew how we'd mo…

> A future where all humans live on Earth in a universe devoid of human life is depressing to me.

Well during your lifetime that will be the case, so this is up to our descendants. There's no need for those descendants to be made of meat -- in fact it's a very serious disadvantage

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#227

Post by stcredzero »

gumby wrote: post #210
stcredzero wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a dystopian robot scenario the more likely one is the one of countless parents of adult children Funny, but we've been talking about this today at my workplace. Basically, by training AIs on our data, we're infusing them with all of our bullshit. Somehow, they still manage to get smarter, but they also realize how screwed up they are by being trained on our data. They wind up resenting us for this.

There's a rational semantics (/hermaneutic) logic in that if they did not share our "peculiarities" we would not even be able to recognize them as intelligent* and certainly could not communicate with them any better than we can with an automobile, powerplant, or transistor (or a tree for that matter). My research in the mid 80s was in this area, including working on the Cyc project, though I was ultimately more inte…

if they did not share our "peculiarities" we would not even be able to recognize them as intelligent and certainly could not communicate with them any better than we can with an automobile, powerplant, or transistor*

That doesn't seem quite right. A 1980's automobile, powerplant, or transistor couldn't make mathematical inferences, guess what you might want to hear, then compose a novel poem which makes sense in a requested style.

the current nonsense about "intelligent" with current computer programs is an inexcusable marketing sin and is invariably a form paradolia

I don't think this comment is going to age well.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#228

Post by hilux »

mattjaynes wrote: post #98
GeoAtreides wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you hate the format of these kinds of article You mean long-form articles? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-form_journalism I don't think the problem is with the format, but with your expectations. Somehow you were expecting a straight answer to the question in the title; instead, it's a detailed look into the incident and the context around it.

No, this is not simply "long-form", this is "in medias res" where the story starts at a heightened moment of tension, then abruptly stops and rewinds to go back to fill in details of how they got to this exciting moment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_medias_res Sometimes it's done to great effect, like in Fight Club (film starts with him at the climax with a gun in his mouth, then rewinds and tells the story). How…

I read the article all the way to the end, and thought it was fascinating.

The author is a very accomplished writer, with a journalism Masters from a top program, and 25 years experience.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#229

Post by keep320909 »

mzs wrote: post #223
keep320909 wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was in a book by Karel Pacner, he studied Russian archives after they were declassified. Not sure what book.

I think you misremember. The opening of Russian archives was in in the mid '90s and here is an article coauthored by Pacner from 2007. It covers Tojohiro Akijama trip in full but does not mention any restraint pon the return trip: - Akijama si vezl šest kamer a fotoaparát. Avšak let snášel obtížně, navíc mu jako silnému kuřákovi chyběly cigarety. Sověti požadovali za každou hodinu vysílání z vesmíru milion dolarů, to…

I remember my source was from book, not article. Also I remember it was grouped with rant about female journalist, who was much better candidate (amateur pilot I think), but her boss went instead.

Flight was around 1993, it was declassified a few years latter, perhaps 1997.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#230

Post by skjoldr »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #185
EricE wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the resistance to something as simple as padlocking a hatch baffles me - it's like their integrity is being impugned by taking a simple and common sense precaution?

> the resistance to something as simple as padlocking a hatch baffles me We keep hatches simple to facilitate egress [1]. A padlocked hatch must be reliably unpadlocked. [1] https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo1info.html

As mentioned elsewhere, the padlock was only applied and removed in orbit and there were tools available to cut it open in case it seized up
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