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Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

thehill.com

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Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#151
post #33

There may be good news on this front. Most of this water is being used to farm, specifically to grow feed crops for cattle. Anyone that can hearken back to elementary school will remember that you lose a lot of energy in the food chain. It takes an absolute shitton of water to get to a steak, 1800 gallons for one 16oz cut ( https://www.denverwater.org/tap/whats-beef-water ). But a demographic crises is coming. I was…

The NYTimes had an article recently that indicated the volume of chicken consumption has increased to a point where it is also a drain on aquifers.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/12/24/climate/groun...

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only a fraction of that can be captured

I’d agree for a lot of places heavy on greenery… but LA? The city itself seems to have a very small percentage of greenery. I’m assuming the rest is mostly captured via sewers just to prevent flooding.

This is true.

A better designed city could capture more.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the disclaimer that I'm pro solar your accident based argument is weak as it ignores all accidents in resource mining for renewable infrastructure .. which will only increase as to date renewables make up only a fraction of the energy still generated by coal which is due to be replaced. Make no mistake, accidents (death and injury) in resource mining (non nuclear) greatly outweigh the total deaths and injuries d…

At the point my solar panel is installed all the death is built in. At the point my coal plant explodes, all the death is built in (no more outgassing, health increases going forward in fact). The problem with the death toll of nuclear is that it's deferred.... So no one can agree what the impact of Chernobyl is. For instance, the UN cites a report and claims 4000 dead post accident. The report itself says 9000. Gree…

As a pro solar pragmatic engineer response:

> At the point my solar panel is installed all the death is built in.

No. The toxic waste ponds left after creating your solar panels remain with all the carcinogenic after effects. The large volume of low level radiactive waste from lithium processing for batery banks remains in ponds (again, see Lynas, Malaysia) awaiting possible pond leakages.

> no one can agree what the impact of Chernobyl is. For instance, the UN cites a report and claims 4000 dead post accident. The report itself says 9000. Greenpeace says 90,000.

So .. how many actual body bags definitive linked then?

Once a waste problem hits ANOVA analysis to tease out deaths from other background deaths it's an acedemic exercise not dissimilar to estimating cancer deaths from eWaste (like solar panel production waste bybroducts).

> billions of years for the fuel (uranium)

So .. hardly breaks down at all, barely radioactive is what you're saying here?

Lead has a half life in the billions of years also - anywhere there's granite has uranium .. and it's the daughter products like Radon gas that fill granite valleys and basements that kill (like a packet a day smoking habit).

> 20k years to move the elephants foot out of chrernoble.

Why move it when it's sufficient to glass it over and stay a few hundred feet back ?

> IF we grew nuclear to 2000 plants the accident rate is going to go UP.

By how much though? Designs have changed since Chernobyl, lessons were learned from Fukishima (which had fewer deaths than the earthquake events and fewer deaths than serious mining accidents).

There are risks everywhere - it's difficult for many to pragmatic assess and compare risk.

You appear myopic WRT risk in the sense that some risk appears much larger and other risk isn't seen at all.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can have safe nuclear, full stop. Your FUD notwithstanding.

We, as a society can't tighten the bolts on plane doors. Its not a question of IF we have an accident its how many, how often and how bad. It's gonna be greed, trying to get more out of the plant, or cutting corners on keeping it safe, its two people who had fights with their partners and dont cross check, Its a tidal wave and a sequence of events that no one thought of. And we know the scope of those things: Chernob…

[deleted]

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#155

> To an outsized extent, the problems identified in the Nature study are — for Americans at least — problems of California, and of the national food systems’ reliance on the fertile Sacramento and San Joaquin valleys and the groundwater beneath. This makes it sound like the only sane option is for the rest of the USA to stop being so dependent on California.

One change which would have to be made is here in the Midwest, we grow a lot of soybeans and corn. We feed most of it to animals. There are likely better uses for that land, especially when talking about modern corn as it is so nitrogen hungry that nearly all farmers apply high nitrogen fertilizer...which runs off into the rivers and causes the dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico.

So, so many things could be better if we reduced meat consumption and transitioned to growing food humans actually eat. But...it's unlikely to happen for an equally large number of reasons.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#156

Toilets haven't been fundamentally changed in 100 years. We flush unfathomable gallons literally down the toilet because we can't think of a better way to move poop around.

We mandate half-flush systems in Australia. A half flush is 0.8 gallons and a US system uses 1.6 gallons per flush. Easy to retrofit your home if you care about water usage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_flush_toilet https://www.epa.gov/watersense/residential-toilets

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#157
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But where does the water go Not back into aquifers, that takes hundreds if not thousands of years. >Also who cares who eats the beef? If you price in the water usage Ya, that's kinda the point, we don't. If we removed the massive subsidies propping up ranching very few people would be consuming beef. >Don't blame people for enjoying their life I don't think I did, but as you brought it up. I'll absolutely shame peop…

Yeah so they're not back into aquifers, but so what. Where is it going if we aren't reusing it? Into the ocean? That is the only reasonable explanation. Unless it's physically leaving Earth which I doubt but also it could be true, who knows. So remove them. Stop crying about cows or the medium, they aren't related to it. It's purely a regulated movement problem. You are talking about who is eating the meat. It is tot…

The main point they are trying to make is the people eating most of the beef are dying off. If the trend holds and younger generations don't drastically increase beef consumption, there just won't be anyone to eat the same amount of beef they are producing currently. Therefore, they will have to reduce beef production which may reduce water used when growing food to feed the cattle as fewer cattle eat less food.

So they are pointing out this problem may resolve itself somewhat as the people that industry relies on die out or retire to an income less able to buy steak for every meal.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is a positive trend, but a few good marketing campaigns can increase eating beef again. It's not that simple. Millennials don't eat meat in the same quantities as their parents did and that's not going to change any time soon. Also, this generation is basically allergic to typical marketing campaigns. They also get how eating meat is detrimental to the environment, something they care a lot about. "Notable Mil…

>Also, this generation is basically allergic to typical marketing campaigns. Huh? The newest generation is the easiest that's ever been to advertise to. The medium has just changed...

According to who? I'll admit I'm not a marketer, but I'm in meetings with and work alongside our chief sales officer a lot and the sentiment is always that millenials are very hard to sell to and gen-z is damn near impossible. Advertising turns them off.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#159
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But where does the water go Not back into aquifers, that takes hundreds if not thousands of years. >Also who cares who eats the beef? If you price in the water usage Ya, that's kinda the point, we don't. If we removed the massive subsidies propping up ranching very few people would be consuming beef. >Don't blame people for enjoying their life I don't think I did, but as you brought it up. I'll absolutely shame peop…

Yeah so they're not back into aquifers, but so what. Where is it going if we aren't reusing it? Into the ocean? That is the only reasonable explanation. Unless it's physically leaving Earth which I doubt but also it could be true, who knows. So remove them. Stop crying about cows or the medium, they aren't related to it. It's purely a regulated movement problem. You are talking about who is eating the meat. It is tot…

You seem to be simultaneously unable to read or comprehend and quite upset at something. I will not waste me time trying to explain it a third time.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#160

Toilets haven't been fundamentally changed in 100 years. We flush unfathomable gallons literally down the toilet because we can't think of a better way to move poop around.

I have a toilet that uses probably 5 times less water than one used 30 years ago, and it even flushes better (feels like a power-flush without being one).
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