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Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

thehill.com

101–110 of 194 posts

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> solar energy prices plummeting Shopping for solar in California, prices aren't plummeting. With high interest rates, solar no longer makes economic sense. Its more expensive than ever. Many solar installers are facing bankruptcy because the market has collapsed.

People are downvoting this, but from Tesla earnings today "Solar deployments declined on a sequential and YoY basis to 41 MW. Downward pressure on solar demand continued into Q4 as interest rates have remained high." This isn't an opinion, this is a fact. You could also compare the cost of capital between 3% and 10% and derive a cost per kwh.

The failures of a tiny player like Tesla Solar are totally unrelated to US solar photovoltaic (PV) capacity.

From 2021 to 2022 solar PV went from ~161,499 GWh to ~202,080 GWh of net generation (~25.1% increase) [1]. Utility scale went from 112,335 GWh to 140,798 GWh (~25.3% increase) [2] and personal/small scale solar PV went from ~49,164 GWh to ~61,282 GWh (~24.6% increase). New solar PV accounts for 11,058 MW of the total 31,692 MW (~34.8%) capacity additions for 2022 [3] and 24,545 MW of the total 51,490 MW (~47.6%) capacity additions that were planned for 2023 [4].

Tesla Solar accounts for ~1/5 of 1% of solar installation capacity, so it is hardly relevant compared to actual solar energy companies.

[1] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_03_01_a.html

[2] Utility Scale Solar includes non-PV, Utility Scale PV numbers derived by subtracting Small Scale Solar Photovoltaic from Estimated Total Solar Photovoltaic

[3] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_04_06.html

[4] https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_04_05.html

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_nuclear_accident We can have safe nuclear power, right after we invent safe people. Till you solve the human problem nukes are bad mmmkay.

We can have safe nuclear, full stop. Your FUD notwithstanding.

We, as a society can't tighten the bolts on plane doors.

Its not a question of IF we have an accident its how many, how often and how bad. It's gonna be greed, trying to get more out of the plant, or cutting corners on keeping it safe, its two people who had fights with their partners and dont cross check, Its a tidal wave and a sequence of events that no one thought of.

And we know the scope of those things: Chernobyl, 20k years 1000 mile exclusion zone. It will take them 100 years to clean up the buildings that are there, we will likely need to build ANOTHER rolling roof to continue that work. Fukushima is a cluster fuck still. They just recently started removing spent uranium fuel rods that were on site. Most nuclear sites have cooling pools filled with radioactive material, that needs to be stored for a scale that is beyond human comprehension. Meanwhile no one has a good or straight answer on how to deal with the meltdown, the fuel IN the ground, still hot.

All that fuel is waiting for someone to turn it into a dirty bomb. Or we can start recycling it and running breeder reactors (and they are dangerous and have the down sides, typically they dont generate much power).

Right now we have about 379.79GW of nuclear generation globally from 400 odd rectors. At the ongoing cost of the two meltdowns. Right now solar is growing by 228 GW a year.

TO keep pace with solar, you're going to have to build 200 reactors a year, every year, for the next 20 years. The solar has its "death toll" built in at install time. The reactor's death toll is one of human factors, it's not an IF it's a when. And that cost could be 3 mile island, or a Chernobyl. That cost could be some wack job breaking in and stealing waste for a dirty bomb, or an accident moving it to the long term storage that we DONT have right now, and dont know how to secure for the time scale that it will be deadly on.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they're testing some new tech that directly uses the sun to desalinate. Really, what's required for the electric grid is ways to store the energy, and not use it. For places like Arizona, they may need a whole different type of infrastructure of grey water use. Just piping in water ain't gonna be sustainable.

Water is a lot easier to store than electricity. Desalinate while the sun is shining to fill a reservoir that you can pull from 24/7.

> Water is a lot easier to store than electricity. Desalinate while the sun is shining to fill a reservoir that you can pull from 24/7.

Cheap to store, expensive to transport. Desalinisation only makes sense if you are near the coast and short of water. Further inland it becomes uneconomical.

The Earth is not short on fresh water, the problem is getting fresh water where it is needed.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can have safe nuclear, full stop. Your FUD notwithstanding.

We, as a society can't tighten the bolts on plane doors. Its not a question of IF we have an accident its how many, how often and how bad. It's gonna be greed, trying to get more out of the plant, or cutting corners on keeping it safe, its two people who had fights with their partners and dont cross check, Its a tidal wave and a sequence of events that no one thought of. And we know the scope of those things: Chernob…

> We, as a society can't tighten the bolts on plane doors.

And yet planes are the single safest places you can be at any given time. Even on a 737-NG you're far more likely to die driving to/from the airport than during the flight.

I would strongly suggest rethinking how you evaluate and manage tail risk.

> Or we can start recycling it and running breeder reactors (and they are dangerous and have the down sides, typically they dont generate much power).

I'm not going to get into it with you because this is just gish gallop, but no, they do not generate less power than conventional reactors. They require dramatically less fuel, several orders of magnitude. Some of them even produce more fuel than they consume. They're not really used only because the cost of Uranium is about $0.005/kWh and there's plenty of it, so there's no need for breeder reactors.

I refer you once again to Brandolini's law. Pretty much everything you claim is wrong and easily disproven with a quick Google search.

Don't facts get in the way of a good narrative, I guess.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#108

Meanwhile Nestle is pumping thousands of gallons per minute out of aquifers to put into plastic bottles.

Literally 0 impact as compared to farming.

And the amount of water for farming that is used to grow crops for animals rather than humans, with beef needing an absurd amount[0] yet is has always argued on for different research methods and money from sources that want to confused us[1].

To quote another study [2] on the issue.

>Agriculture accounts for 92% of the freshwater footprint of humanity; almost one third relates to animal products. ... >In the western countries, the WF of meat can be reduced by changing consumption, requiring a transition in the present nutrition pattern and a reduction of food wastes. Obviously, the WF of the livestock sector is only one of the concerns to be taken into account. Other factors include animal welfare, food security, public health concerns and environmental issues other than water, like contribution to emission of greenhouse gases.

It took a while for me to come to grips that I needed to change food comsumption to only non-animal products. Way to many reasons. Maybe comments on threads like this can slowly change other people as well. We need compounding changes to really make a difference.

[0] https://www.watercalculator.org/news/articles/beef-king-big-... [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB120001666638282817 [2] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221237171...

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#109
post #33

There may be good news on this front. Most of this water is being used to farm, specifically to grow feed crops for cattle. Anyone that can hearken back to elementary school will remember that you lose a lot of energy in the food chain. It takes an absolute shitton of water to get to a steak, 1800 gallons for one 16oz cut ( https://www.denverwater.org/tap/whats-beef-water ). But a demographic crises is coming. I was…

Scene 2: Enter Paleo.

Re: Majority of America's underground water stores are drying up, study finds

#110
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great, we're looking at deaths till the point of generation. 4.5 billion years, is the half life of uranium. Come back to me with stats then.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster We're going to be pouring money into that shit show for probably a 1000 years, and an exclusion zone for 20,000. So if you want to move next to Fukushima or Chernobyl you can preach safe nuclear from there, other wise stop the…

The amount of spent uranium that will need to stored is infinitesimally small compared to the amount of energy that is produced in contrast to the waste that is produced by any other non-renewable source. It will typically get buried deep in the earths crust - deeper than anything save for mining, encased in concrete, and buried over where it would be most unlikely that anything will touch it ever again.

>>> It will typically get buried deep in the earths crust

IN the us, above ground, on site, in dry casks (Fukushima had this same issue too) There is no plan for where to put it. Yuca mountain is stalled and no way to finish (and problems with the site)

https://www.nei.org/news/2019/what-happens-nuclear-waste-us

Sweden got their shit together, but they dont have much in the way of power and their site has massive cost over runs.

https://www.politico.eu/article/sweden-approve-nuclear-waste...

But, even underground, on the time scale were talking about, its complicated: https://longnow.org/ideas/the-other-10000-year-project-long-...

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