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Framework Laptop 16 Review

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#361

Post by rkagerer »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #352
rkagerer wrote: post #327

Plus in maintaining the slimness of the overall laptop if wanting to use the Gigabit Ethernet port it sticks out from the side of the laptop. I really wish they'd fix this.

Yes, and please put some ports on the back. Who the hell wants ethernet cables running sideways across their desk?

Yeah, speaking for myself a mix of dense standard ports and a few swappable ones would be more attractive. I wouldn't even mind them being more difficult to swap out (requiring some disassembly) if it meant they were smaller or sturdier.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#362

Post by mixmastamyk »

zbrozek wrote: post #295

My AMD Framework 13 occasionally hangs and requires hard reset to come back to life. No errors are generated. As far as I can tell it instantly and unpredictably stops executing any instructions at all. There hasn't been a driver or firmware update in three months. The keyboard and trackpad are mediocre. The fan vents are on the bottom of the computer where they're almost permanently blocked. It's not a terrible comp…

I have that one and no crashes at all. If I had to guess you might have some bad RAM causing it. Try running a memtest like program to see if it finds anything.

Latest Fedora 39 kernel fixed a problem I had switching from graphics to a virtual terminal and back.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#363

Post by Liskni_si »

dartharva wrote: post #66
RomanPushkin wrote: post #7

I wish they deliver good keyboard as well, like Thinkpads X201 or similar have. I am happy owner of modded X201 with updated screen, motherboard, and so on. It's not on a cheap side, but I'm happy to pay that price _only_ for the keyboard option. It's so cool. Folks back then knew what was important.

Does a current-gen laptop featuring an X201-like keyboard exist? Has such a thing even existed in the last five years?

Apart from the 51nb stuff from China (https://www.xyte.ch/mods/x210-x2100/ and the like), the ThinkPad 25 is the closest official thing, but it's over 6 years old now (released in October 2017, but mine's still going strong and I haven't even replaced the batteries yet).

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#364

Post by _odey »

snvzz wrote: post #359
_odey wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about using the preinstalled one, it's about putting your reputation on the line that you are cofnident enough to preistall it and support it officially. Tuxedo is a Linux laptop, Framework is "just another" windows laptop that happens to work with Linux as well.

If I was them, I wouldn't bother. Best to focus on making the hardware the absolute best. This includes selecting parts that work well on oss systems, as well as taking special care on the firmware side that everything is as correct and open source as possible. Anybody else can do software support; that's not my business. >Tuxedo is a Linux laptop, Framework is "just another" windows laptop that happens to work with…

Yes, you are right, no bundling would be best across the board. But Microsoft is doubling down on this, with mandatory TPM requirements and keyboard changes for vendors.

Unfortunately, in practice it's the case that the vendor's advertised support matters.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#365

Post by vetinari »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #272
vetinari wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not that visible but it does produce some blur At these pixel sizes (except 125%), it is irrelevant. MacOS and iPhone do exactly the same for years, and nobody was ever bothered. > along with the performance overhead. By the increased resolution of the framebuffer; the scaling itself is done by hardware (and here I do not mean GPU; I mean output encoder).

125% and 150% are really common for available laptops though. The former for the 1920x1200 13-14 inch laptops, the latter for 2560x1600 15-16 inch laptops. iOS doesn't do fractionally scaling, only 2x, and Macs are all designed to run at 200%, though you can set it to 175% or 150%. MacOS looks equally terrible at 125% or 100% (this is due to the lack of subpixel rendering, but I digress)

> iOS doesn't do fractionally scaling, only 2x,

Oh, it does. The framebuffer is integer scaled, but the physical display has different (lower) resolution. As I wrote above, this mismatch is handled by the output encoder.

> Macs are all designed to run at 200%, though you can set it to 175% or 150%.

Macs since around 2016 ship with ~175% default.

Again, the framebuffer is integer scaled (make a screenshot and see for yourself), and then fit to the display with lower resolution.

They do not support 150% or 175% though; these numbers are never shown in UI, just some description like "more space". This is not just Apple-esque hiding of everything that might sound technical; they really do not support 150% or 175%. In reality, it is more like 177,78% or 152,38%; they get something out of it, but that is a different topic.

It is exactly the same approach that Gnome / Mutter uses for fractional scaling. Except that Mutter did the mistake with exact scales.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#366

Post by whitesnowy »

nrp wrote: post #2

I'm happy to answer any questions folks have on this product.

Will there eventually be a 15" model in your product roadmap?

15" sits nicely between your 13" and 16" models, and provides a good balance between screen real estate, number of ports and portability.

Personally I find a 13" to be slightly on the smaller side, whilst the 16" is too large for me.

I am quite sure many people are looking forward to a FW 15" with AMD Ryzen.

Thank you for considering this.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#367

Post by ornel »

pachico wrote: post #24

I am really happy with my fw13. I love everything of it. I even made the simulation of upgrading to 64gb of ram just after I bought it to prove myself that it was the right choice. I cannot think of going back to buying something I know I'll most likely have to replace entirely after some time because it cannot be upgraded.

Extremely happy as well. I did put 64gb on it and use it all day for GIS and design on Ubuntu, plugged to a Dell dock and two 4k monitors for a triple head set up

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#368

Post by esskay »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #228
jwells89 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the expectation for battery life for most these days is closer to what can be found on e.g. M-series MacBooks or in the x86 world, HP Dragonfly and some ASUS Zenbooks, which range between 14 and 22 hours.

Battery life is inherently a trade off against performance and weight. It's also a trade off against competence, because you can kill the battery right quick if drivers don't idle things properly, but even after you address that you still have the other thing. Which makes 16+ hour battery life an odd choice for most people. Who uses their laptop for 16 contiguous hours with no opportunity to charge? It could have bee…

I'd disagree that its a tradeoff of weight. The macbook air is an incredibly light weight laptop yet still pushes 18hrs battery life on the 13" model, even the 14" pro at 22 hours is still lighter than most laptops.

The weight isnt the problem. It's the poor optimisation of hardware and software.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#369

Post by zbrozek »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #362
zbrozek wrote: post #295

My AMD Framework 13 occasionally hangs and requires hard reset to come back to life. No errors are generated. As far as I can tell it instantly and unpredictably stops executing any instructions at all. There hasn't been a driver or firmware update in three months. The keyboard and trackpad are mediocre. The fan vents are on the bottom of the computer where they're almost permanently blocked. It's not a terrible comp…

I have that one and no crashes at all. If I had to guess you might have some bad RAM causing it. Try running a memtest like program to see if it finds anything. Latest Fedora 39 kernel fixed a problem I had switching from graphics to a virtual terminal and back.

I've done that and have had zero errors after running as many loops as completed overnight (if memory serves, just under ten full loops of memtest86+). But I agree with the intuition; I was also suspicious of memory.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#370

Post by cassepipe »

zbrozek wrote: post #312
cassepipe wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the bottom is the air in-take. The air is blown at the edge of the bottom between the hinges. I have the fw13 12th gen and I don't think the keyboard and trackpad are mediocre at all. I am running the Fedora Cinnamon spin. The issue for me is that only sometimes it takes a minutes to get out of sleep after I close the lid. Apart from that it works fine, and I would recommend it.

Deepest apologies; I meant to say grille. Regardless of the flow direction, I am constantly blocking the aperture with my legs or blanket. The touchpad frequently misidentifies movement as taps, something that hasn't been a problem for me on the Macbook Pro, the X1 Carbon, or the Microsoft Surface. The keyboard keys aren't too bad, but could have a sharper inflection point in the force vs travel and also be little bi…

I don't think it has ever been a good idea to rest a laptop on a blanket on even laps for more than a few minutes... Anyways, that's been a concern on all my previous laptops. I bought a second laptop platform-cushion for my legs/bedtime and it's much better no matter the laptop.

Same for touchpad issues, my big palms sides have always been the source of misidentified clicks. The way I solved it on linux was by making it narrower in software. It take a one line straightforward command to do so.

I really like the keyboard I must say. It's much better than my previous laptops (that were admittedly cheaper)

I don't have any boot issues on my model so I don't know about a boot problem sorry

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