Don't you guys have boats?
The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
111–120 of 122 posts
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#112The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is fairly small, and the disadvantage is that rogue waves can just randomly splash that high. The current plane's wingspan is 65 feet, which probably means it flies about 32 feet (half a wingspan) off the water. Rogue waves can easily be that high in mild weather, and hitting even a small amount of water at 200 mph (claimed cruise speed) is bad. Lots of sea birds too…
>The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is the certification of the craft as a ship instead of a plane. I think it'd be very easy to build today a flying boat like the ones from 30s ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper ), yet certification cost of it makes it unfeasible as a business endeavor. In general, if I remember correctly, the cheap inter-island transportation isn't really wanted ther…
> In general, if I remember correctly, the cheap inter-island transportation isn't really wanted there as it is expected to bring homeless/etc. to the otherwise affluent islands.
There’s already dirt cheap inter-island transport, it’s just slow. A homeless guy doesn’t care if the ferry takes 2 hours instead of 30 minutes when the ticket is $40.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is the certification of the craft as a ship instead of a plane. I think it'd be very easy to build today a flying boat like the ones from 30s ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper ), yet certification cost of it makes it unfeasible as a business endeavor. In general, if I remember correctly, the cheap inter-island transportation isn't really wanted ther…
> In general, if I remember correctly, the cheap inter-island transportation isn't really wanted there as it is expected to bring homeless/etc. to the otherwise affluent islands. There’s already dirt cheap inter-island transport, it’s just slow. A homeless guy doesn’t care if the ferry takes 2 hours instead of 30 minutes when the ticket is $40. https://www.oahutomaui.com/default.html
It ceased operations a decade ago. For environmental reasons officially, and unofficially exactly because it was cheap inter-island transport for homeless and the likes.
>There’s already dirt cheap inter-island transport
that is the point that there is no such transport.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Christchurch to Wellington is a bit of a stretch for the range. It's too far to use the Harbour infrastructure at either end. You would have to build a pier on the southern side of Wellington (say Island Bay) and then use New Brighton pier. That works out to about 295 km. With only 300km range, it's hard to find good routes in NZ.
According to https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/128397643/transport-revolut... they do intend to do Christchurch–Wellington. Possibly only with the bigger 100-seater ones they've ordered though.
Well, they only need slightly more range. 300km isn't really enough, but 350km is plenty.
From what I can tell, the design is still in development. The 300km number is probably more of a conservative estimate than an actual range. The Ocean Flyer team might be gambling on the real-world range being long enough for the Christchurch-Wellington route.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> Probably just a tourist attraction. Yes and no. One the one hand, absolutely a tourist attraction. Its projected to be cheaper than flying, and hopes to be a lot less hassle. (Expect pushback from the airlines. ) However small capacity, cheap, accessible transport is a boon for islanders living in archipelago. For starters you're not bound to islands big enough for an airport. Given that the vehicle is electric, a…
> for starters you're not bound to islands big enough for an airport. The competition for that space is seaplanes, including both floatplanes and flying boats, which have been around for a century. Electric versions of those exist, like https://harbourair.com/corporate-responsibility/goingelectri... , and https://el-fly.no/ wants to build an electric amphibious flying boat. Yes, a ground-effect vehicle has better win…
> I flew on a seaplane between the US and the Bahamas, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chalk%27s_International_Airlin... . It was a fun touristy thing, but not touristy enough to maintain a commercial seaplane service.
Chalks suffered a tragic structural failure, likely caused by corrosion, which mostly ended the company.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is this actually a problem? This feels like something that an automated system could pretty easily detect, up to the range of visibility, and raise the seaplane up if this happens. Further, this is an inter-island route. Adding dedicated monitoring seems imminently doable. Yes, this is a concern. No, it's not hard to deal with.
Isn’t the deal with rogue waves that they’re rogue ? They’re not just big waves that slowly and predictably approach you from the horizon, then continue on their way past you in the opposite direction - they arise suddenly, unpredictably, without warning. One minute everything is smooth sailing, peaks and troughs of a few feet, and then suddenly the sea drops out from under you and now you’re in a 30 foot trough, or…
iirc, a rogue wave is 2x the local max. 2x or greater, yes, but 10x...i'm unaware of recorded examples.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#117An Ehang EVTOL would fly between most of these islands, all electric, no pilot, and so far, apparently very safe.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#118Wow, this technology is quite fascinating! It's possible that they might consider updating it to a more established version with greater capacity, which has been known and is operating since 1961. https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BE...
This is rule-breaking on HN; argue in good faith.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can definitely see the big negative impact on transportation of goods to/from Hawaii as a result of that law, as foreign ships can't stop at Hawaii to offload (and or pickup) goods and then continue on to the continental US. But I'm not seeing why it would be bad for a local ferry. The sailors operating the ferry are going to be living on the islands, so requiring them to be legal permanent residents doesn't seem t…
The Jones act also requires the ships to be locally built, and the owners to be locals. So no Chinese investors, or Korean ships. So less competition. You are right that the requirement for the crews to be local is less of an issue for a local ferry.
Ah that makes sense, I had overlooked the manufacturing requirements. Especially for a new type of ship that could certainly impact economies of scale. Thanks!
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't this not apply in Hawaii, since there's a state law (or multiple laws) that effectively forbid ferries between the islands? IIRC it was to avoid environmental cross-contamination.
Seems that attempts at ferry service failed commercially: * https://old.reddit.com/r/geography/comments/175un38/why_does... > Ferry operations were suspended in March 2009 after the Hawaii Supreme Court ruled that a state law allowing the Superferry to operate without a second complete environmental impact statement was unconstitutional.[2] The company went bankrupt as a result of these actions preventing service in…
There was great demand but crowds of eco-protesters would block the landing and prevented all operation, so they saw no revenue for many quarters. Pretty soon there was no money left to continue operations, let alone deal with the lawsuits and regulatory pile-ons. The state went back to being reliant on airlines and big shipping vessels (which are more polluting).