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The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

hawaiiseaglider.org

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Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#81

Post by [deleted] »

ghaff wrote: post #78
henrikschroder wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The superferry was canned because of lobbying by airlines and car rental companies. Currently, the only way to travel between the islands is by actual airplanes, through airports, with all the annoyances that comes with that, TSA, security, bag checks, prohibited items, and a gazillion other rules. That's what this thing will compete against, and it's pretty much a slam dunk. Unless it will be lobbied to death like t…

Though aside from Honolulu (I assume, haven't been there specifically), most of the airports in Hawaii are pretty small, laid-back affairs. They're really not a big deal to fly in and out of. There were also a lot of environmental protests against the Superferry that I doubt can all be chalked up to car rental and airline lobbying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry

[deleted]

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#82

Post by throw0101d »

Meta: it seems like Hawaii (Hawai'i) would be a pretty good place to be able to do public transit, given the not-huge distances involved on any particular island, but AFAICT, it's not very good there.

Also it seems like it's not very bike / cycling friendly either:

* https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/07/keona-blanks-when-it-comes...

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#83

Post by beaeglebeached »

ghaff wrote: post #78
henrikschroder wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The superferry was canned because of lobbying by airlines and car rental companies. Currently, the only way to travel between the islands is by actual airplanes, through airports, with all the annoyances that comes with that, TSA, security, bag checks, prohibited items, and a gazillion other rules. That's what this thing will compete against, and it's pretty much a slam dunk. Unless it will be lobbied to death like t…

Though aside from Honolulu (I assume, haven't been there specifically), most of the airports in Hawaii are pretty small, laid-back affairs. They're really not a big deal to fly in and out of. There were also a lot of environmental protests against the Superferry that I doubt can all be chalked up to car rental and airline lobbying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry

TSA afaik isn't even required for intrastate flights as intrastate travel isn't fed jurisdiction. In Alaska they don't even metal detect for weapons intrastate last time I flew.

If they're keeping TSA for intrastate flightd it's just as a fed funded voluntary jobs program for low IQ undereducated people to not have to rely on state welfare .

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#84

Post by throw0101d »

gottorf wrote: post #80
eru wrote: post #42

Thank the Jones Act for making travel between the islands (and between the islands and the US mainland) harder than it should be. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920

Doesn't this not apply in Hawaii, since there's a state law (or multiple laws) that effectively forbid ferries between the islands? IIRC it was to avoid environmental cross-contamination.

Seems that attempts at ferry service failed commercially:

* https://old.reddit.com/r/geography/comments/175un38/why_does...

> Ferry operations were suspended in March 2009 after the Hawaii Supreme Court ruled that a state law allowing the Superferry to operate without a second complete environmental impact statement was unconstitutional.[2] The company went bankrupt as a result of these actions preventing service in Hawaii.[3] On July 2, 2009 a Delaware Bankruptcy Court granted the company's motion to abandon both the ships Alakai and Huakai, ending all possibilities that the company might return to Hawaii;[4] the ships were bought by the US Maritime Administration in 2010.[5] The United States Navy eventually purchased the craft for a total of $35M, a small fraction of their original $180M cost.[6]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#85

Post by beaeglebeached »

mkl wrote: post #29
hackernewds wrote: post #2

all this "Hawaii environment is fragile fly with us" hullabaloo to fly a 2 seater plane?

12-seater, zero-emission: https://www.hawaiiseaglider.org/what-is-a-seaglider

Wonder if power generation in emissionless on the islands. I think sailboat handily beats this thing environmentally.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#86

Post by ghaff »

beaeglebeached wrote: post #83
ghaff wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though aside from Honolulu (I assume, haven't been there specifically), most of the airports in Hawaii are pretty small, laid-back affairs. They're really not a big deal to fly in and out of. There were also a lot of environmental protests against the Superferry that I doubt can all be chalked up to car rental and airline lobbying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry

TSA afaik isn't even required for intrastate flights as intrastate travel isn't fed jurisdiction. In Alaska they don't even metal detect for weapons intrastate last time I flew. If they're keeping TSA for intrastate flightd it's just as a fed funded voluntary jobs program for low IQ undereducated people to not have to rely on state welfare .

Your elitist commentary aside. The issue is probably more that at small Hawaii airports that have both service back to the mainland and inter-island flights, they just don't bother to separate the two pools of passengers.

I have done an inter-island flight from smaller small prop plane terminal in Kona adjacent to the main (but still small) terminal and I'm guessing I didn't have a security screening in that case.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#87

Post by ghaff »

throw0101d wrote: post #82

Meta: it seems like Hawaii (Hawai'i) would be a pretty good place to be able to do public transit, given the not-huge distances involved on any particular island, but AFAICT, it's not very good there. Also it seems like it's not very bike / cycling friendly either: * https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/07/keona-blanks-when-it-comes...

You do have to separate Honolulu from pretty much everywhere else in the islands.

Most of the small town/cities/resort communities are quite walkable once you get there. Everything else is extremely spread out--rural for the most part by any reasonable measure. Also often difficult terrain.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#88

Post by upofadown »

>What are some concerns that have been expressed about the Hawai‘i seaglider system?

>A preliminary survey of Hawai‘i residents showed they are concerned that seagliders will only be affordable to the affluent ...

So the fares might be too high.

[...]

>Others expressed their concern about how seagliders can potentially impact communities through an increase in visitors.

So the fares might be too low.

Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands

#89

Post by trhway »

tlb wrote: post #58

The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is fairly small, and the disadvantage is that rogue waves can just randomly splash that high. The current plane's wingspan is 65 feet, which probably means it flies about 32 feet (half a wingspan) off the water. Rogue waves can easily be that high in mild weather, and hitting even a small amount of water at 200 mph (claimed cruise speed) is bad. Lots of sea birds too…

>The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is

the certification of the craft as a ship instead of a plane. I think it'd be very easy to build today a flying boat like the ones from 30s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_314_Clipper), yet certification cost of it makes it unfeasible as a business endeavor.

In general, if I remember correctly, the cheap inter-island transportation isn't really wanted there as it is expected to bring homeless/etc. to the otherwise affluent islands.

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