Why not HSCs? They work great for fast passenger travel between islands.
The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
71–80 of 122 posts
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's only hydro-foiling on take-off and landing, in flight it's a plane in ground effect flying just above the sea.
Tell that to the dolphins which swim along the shore line where the take offs and landings will be occurring.
My point is that the lower risk for the majority of the journey will offset (partially or fully I do not know) the increased risk on take-off and landing. I would guess that the overall risk will end up lower for a WIG craft than a traditional high speed foiling vessel.
Also rocks are only a concern in a small area of ocean around the takeoff and landing areas, which will presumably be fairly well surveyed.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can a ground effect plane really be more efficient than a ferry or a hyperfoil? It just seems like a boat that can carry cargo etc would be useful infrastructure instead of a fast taxi service. Pour que no los dos perhaps... To be clear, what I read about the ferry service being shut down made it sound like Hawaii has some dysfunction preventing good and normal things from happening, just sounds like this would be le…
Efficiency is not the only metric here. Water has a lot of friction. That's why boats are relatively slow and use a lot of fuel or electricity. A ferry with hundreds of miles range would need a huge battery. With distances between islands being tens to hundreds of miles (depending on the route), the speed also matters. For cargo that matters less obviously. This thing is electric and flies over the water. So it uses…
> And likewise because it flies in ground effect, it has an advantage over electrical planes as well.
It better be able to fly out of ground effect as well, or service would have to be suspended whenever the sea state doesn't allow it.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
The superferry was canned because of lobbying by airlines and car rental companies. Currently, the only way to travel between the islands is by actual airplanes, through airports, with all the annoyances that comes with that, TSA, security, bag checks, prohibited items, and a gazillion other rules. That's what this thing will compete against, and it's pretty much a slam dunk. Unless it will be lobbied to death like t…
Why would the rental car companies care?
As with many ferries, the Superferry could let you bring your vehicle with you on the trip. The rental car companies would care because that would reduce their business as many locations in Hawaii are best accessible via private vehicle.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#75The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is fairly small, and the disadvantage is that rogue waves can just randomly splash that high. The current plane's wingspan is 65 feet, which probably means it flies about 32 feet (half a wingspan) off the water. Rogue waves can easily be that high in mild weather, and hitting even a small amount of water at 200 mph (claimed cruise speed) is bad. Lots of sea birds too…
> The aerodynamic benefit of flying in ground effect is fairly small
It's small compared to regular flight, but it's far more efficient than a regular boat hull pushing the water. A lot of that efficiency is achieved in hydrofoil mode, but lifting into ground effect mode should be even more efficient than hydrofoil (albeit as you say at some loss of stability).
There are already several electric hydrofoil pleasure boats available that have remarkable range, i.e. Navier and Candela.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure where you're getting this. There are no inter-island ferries anymore in Hawaii, except for the short tourist hops from Maui to Lanai and Molokai. Much longer trips between the big island, Maui and Oahu were possible for a couple years up until 2009 on the Superferry, but it closed after years of legal wrangling over environmental issues.
Big Island never got superferry. Back in the 70s there was Seaflite on Boeing hydroplanes that was short lived as well.
Not sure why the Boeing 929 was a failure in so many places, but you can still ride them in Japan and Hong Kong. The experience is fun --they are fast, security is light and the vessels are retro-futuristic. I rode one from Tokyo to Izu-Oshima and it was 1:45 vs 6:00 for the normal ferry.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Efficiency is not the only metric here. Water has a lot of friction. That's why boats are relatively slow and use a lot of fuel or electricity. A ferry with hundreds of miles range would need a huge battery. With distances between islands being tens to hundreds of miles (depending on the route), the speed also matters. For cargo that matters less obviously. This thing is electric and flies over the water. So it uses…
> And likewise because it flies in ground effect, it has an advantage over electrical planes as well. It better be able to fly out of ground effect as well, or service would have to be suspended whenever the sea state doesn't allow it.
That's true for ferries and hydro planes as well. Generally flying in rough weather is also not great.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#78Wasn't there a ferry transportation service that got canned due to environmental concerns? Seems hard to imagine planes doing better on that front.
The superferry was canned because of lobbying by airlines and car rental companies. Currently, the only way to travel between the islands is by actual airplanes, through airports, with all the annoyances that comes with that, TSA, security, bag checks, prohibited items, and a gazillion other rules. That's what this thing will compete against, and it's pretty much a slam dunk. Unless it will be lobbied to death like t…
Though aside from Honolulu (I assume, haven't been there specifically), most of the airports in Hawaii are pretty small, laid-back affairs. They're really not a big deal to fly in and out of.
There were also a lot of environmental protests against the Superferry that I doubt can all be chalked up to car rental and airline lobbying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawaii_Superferry
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#79It's an ekranoplan. The USSR made several. The actual vehicle is from a company called Regent.[1] They do have a quarter-scale prototype, and a video. This web site is from some group trying to get funding for a service. The current Regent ekranoplan, not yet shipping, is a 12 passenger model. That seems small for an inter-island ferry. It would be faster than a ferry, but since the existing inter-island ferry routes…
The small size is actually the point? One of the big problems with the Superferry was the places the ferry went, didn't want to have a bunch of people showing up at once cheaply for... NIMBY reasons.
Re: The Hawai’i Seaglider Initiative: A new approach to travel between the islands
#80Thank the Jones Act for making travel between the islands (and between the islands and the US mainland) harder than it should be. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Marine_Act_of_1920
Doesn't this not apply in Hawaii, since there's a state law (or multiple laws) that effectively forbid ferries between the islands? IIRC it was to avoid environmental cross-contamination.