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Framework Laptop 16 Review

phoronix.com

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#311

Post by PasteBinSpecial »

nrp wrote: post #296
ncallaway wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really want to see the docking station that can double as an eGPU using the FW16 discrete GPU module Yes! As another owner of the FW13, if they released some kind of external adapter for the FW16 GPU I'd definitely purchase the GPU and the adapter the day its open for sale.

We showed a proof of concept of exactly this actually at our initial launch event for Framework Laptop 16 last year. It's still something we see as an interesting use case to support, but we don't have a timeline around productization of it.

Have you ever considered designing a steam deck / handheld form factor that could take old motherboards from FW laptops?

Unsure how viable that would be, but it would help justify that proof of concept (imho).

Would be really cool if the GPU could serve multiple devices across generations like that somehow, eventually. Buy one FW laptop, upgrade it, use the old parts for a new handheld, use the old GPU as a dock for that handheld when you get a new one for the laptop.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#312

Post by zbrozek »

cassepipe wrote: post #305
zbrozek wrote: post #295

My AMD Framework 13 occasionally hangs and requires hard reset to come back to life. No errors are generated. As far as I can tell it instantly and unpredictably stops executing any instructions at all. There hasn't been a driver or firmware update in three months. The keyboard and trackpad are mediocre. The fan vents are on the bottom of the computer where they're almost permanently blocked. It's not a terrible comp…

On the bottom is the air in-take. The air is blown at the edge of the bottom between the hinges. I have the fw13 12th gen and I don't think the keyboard and trackpad are mediocre at all. I am running the Fedora Cinnamon spin. The issue for me is that only sometimes it takes a minutes to get out of sleep after I close the lid. Apart from that it works fine, and I would recommend it.

Deepest apologies; I meant to say grille. Regardless of the flow direction, I am constantly blocking the aperture with my legs or blanket.

The touchpad frequently misidentifies movement as taps, something that hasn't been a problem for me on the Macbook Pro, the X1 Carbon, or the Microsoft Surface. The keyboard keys aren't too bad, but could have a sharper inflection point in the force vs travel and also be little bit less wobbly. Neither of these are fatal flaws, but are enough, I think, to call them mediocre.

Do you also find that the computer forgets its DDR5 training pretty regularly and takes a long time to boot? For me I think it's ~1-in-10 boots.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#313

Post by locusm »

PasteBinSpecial wrote: post #311
nrp wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We showed a proof of concept of exactly this actually at our initial launch event for Framework Laptop 16 last year. It's still something we see as an interesting use case to support, but we don't have a timeline around productization of it.

Have you ever considered designing a steam deck / handheld form factor that could take old motherboards from FW laptops? Unsure how viable that would be, but it would help justify that proof of concept (imho). Would be really cool if the GPU could serve multiple devices across generations like that somehow, eventually. Buy one FW laptop, upgrade it, use the old parts for a new handheld, use the old GPU as a dock for…

You mean like this? https://www.hackster.io/news/pitstoptech-s-framework-mainboa...

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#314

Post by zamadatix »

starkparker wrote: post #292
Rebelgecko wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings. I bought mine hoping Framework would improve the SW (especially firmware and drivers) over time but that hasn't been the case. My 12th gen has issues with abysmal battery life while sleeping (not just the regular Intel 12th gen sleep complaints, but batt life varies greatly depending on which expansion cards you have on the laptop while sleeping eg USB-A vs -C). Framework has been beta testing…

> Even though Fedora is (afaict?) the best supposed Linux distro As someone who had a 12th-gen mainboard and upgraded to an AMD board, and assuming you meant "supported" here, the rest of the points here are fine but this one rather explicitly is off. Ubuntu is the primary supported distro across the board: https://frame.work/linux Fedora was recommended for AMD mainboards when Framework started shipping them, becaus…

There isn't really anything on that page says Ubuntu is the primary supported distro and Fedora isn't. They seem to both be equally supported with no preference according to both the listings and the wording on the page.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#315

Post by sroussey »

alwayslikethis wrote: post #272
vetinari wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not that visible but it does produce some blur At these pixel sizes (except 125%), it is irrelevant. MacOS and iPhone do exactly the same for years, and nobody was ever bothered. > along with the performance overhead. By the increased resolution of the framebuffer; the scaling itself is done by hardware (and here I do not mean GPU; I mean output encoder).

125% and 150% are really common for available laptops though. The former for the 1920x1200 13-14 inch laptops, the latter for 2560x1600 15-16 inch laptops. iOS doesn't do fractionally scaling, only 2x, and Macs are all designed to run at 200%, though you can set it to 175% or 150%. MacOS looks equally terrible at 125% or 100% (this is due to the lack of subpixel rendering, but I digress)

Oh, iPhones do fractional scaling now, and have for years. The display has gotten much more pixel dense. It is not reported to the developer or the user what the real resolution is.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#316

Post by mespe »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #281
jakamau wrote: post #190

I have the DIY FW13 Intel 11th Gen with Fedora. I've had an overall positive experience and have enjoyed tinkering with it. My only negative with it has been the issue specific to 11th gens where the CMOS drains and eventually dies if the laptop is left unplugged for days-to-weeks at a time. On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company…

I have mixed feelings. I bought mine hoping Framework would improve the SW (especially firmware and drivers) over time but that hasn't been the case. My 12th gen has issues with abysmal battery life while sleeping (not just the regular Intel 12th gen sleep complaints, but batt life varies greatly depending on which expansion cards you have on the laptop while sleeping eg USB-A vs -C). Framework has been beta testing…

Typing this on 12th gen running Fedora, and I have none of the issues you describe. I've been daily driving this laptop for 2 years, and my only complaint is the mediocre battery life (I get 5-6 hours with mixed use and around 50% display brightness).

I did switch from the glossy to matte display, which was a massive improvement for use on the go.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#317

Post by hkt »

I know this is nuts, but I recently bought a thinkpad x230t from 2012 when my StarBook died after a year, and it is the best laptop I've ever used.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#318

Post by tomrod »

jakamau wrote: post #190

I have the DIY FW13 Intel 11th Gen with Fedora. I've had an overall positive experience and have enjoyed tinkering with it. My only negative with it has been the issue specific to 11th gens where the CMOS drains and eventually dies if the laptop is left unplugged for days-to-weeks at a time. On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company…

Your setup is identical to mine. We tested bringing them in for business use. On one, the graphics would randomly glitch. We replaced every part of the system except the screen and it would still glitch, so I replaced with Thinkpad. Just need a solid system.

After two years of sporadic use, our engineer with Fedora+Framework gave it up as it started burning him (2nd degree)!

Overall, I liked the experience and the mission, but was sad we've had the experience of glitch+burning.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#319

Post by tomrod »

ochoseis wrote: post #263
jakamau wrote: post #190

I have the DIY FW13 Intel 11th Gen with Fedora. I've had an overall positive experience and have enjoyed tinkering with it. My only negative with it has been the issue specific to 11th gens where the CMOS drains and eventually dies if the laptop is left unplugged for days-to-weeks at a time. On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company…

> On the whole Framework handled the issue well, there was no permanent fix without soldering or replacing the board. The company was upfront, provided support, a replacement battery, and even published a how-to on modifying the mainboard after the fact. IMHO, handling it well would mean recalling and replacing the defective mainboards (so long as they’re in warranty). They must have a ton of brand equity / good will…

Their help process included me taking several pictures and descriptions of wonky behavior for when graphics were glitching.

Which was fine at the time, but would have preferred to just RMA the unit so I would have a working unit (we purchased to test for business use).

Re: Framework Laptop 16 Review

#320

Post by ghostpepper »

bityard wrote: post #82

Phoronix do a good job with benchmarks, but their reviews typically stop there. There is another review from Verge that goes a lot more into daily use concerns and build quality: https://www.theverge.com/24047424/framework-laptop-16-review

Pretty striking how different these two reviews are.
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