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United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

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Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#71

Post by zaptheimpaler »

drstewart wrote: post #49
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #6

At this point, it’s quite pertinent how many corners Boeing has cut over and over again—the company’s culture and management is obviously poisonous. I’m probably a minority of folks, but at this point I’m flying on airlines with the fewest Boeing Max generation planes in their fleet. I also don’t really trust the FAA to properly regulate Boeing after years of a close relationship—the recent groundings are the bare mi…

So what are your thoughts on people who won't take the vaccine because they don't trust pharma companies and the FDA? Also, what are your thoughts on the EASA and why they haven't banned the Max? I find it hilarious how many people who mock people who "don't trust the experts" and "do their own research" suddenly engage in the same thing when it comes to other domains. Make no mistake: anti-Maxxers are kinfolk to ant…

Yes these are clearly identical situations with no difference at all! /s

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#72

Post by earthling8118 »

drstewart wrote: post #49
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #6

At this point, it’s quite pertinent how many corners Boeing has cut over and over again—the company’s culture and management is obviously poisonous. I’m probably a minority of folks, but at this point I’m flying on airlines with the fewest Boeing Max generation planes in their fleet. I also don’t really trust the FAA to properly regulate Boeing after years of a close relationship—the recent groundings are the bare mi…

So what are your thoughts on people who won't take the vaccine because they don't trust pharma companies and the FDA? Also, what are your thoughts on the EASA and why they haven't banned the Max? I find it hilarious how many people who mock people who "don't trust the experts" and "do their own research" suddenly engage in the same thing when it comes to other domains. Make no mistake: anti-Maxxers are kinfolk to ant…

That is absolutely not the same thing. If I don't fly on a plane, the worst thing that happens is the company doesn't get my money. If I don't take a vaccine the worst thing that could happen becomes a potential loss of vital senses or even death(s).

Your ending statement could hardly be further from the truth. There's no evidence that these groups of people are related.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#73

Post by cschmatzler »

drak0n1c wrote: post #67
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #6

At this point, it’s quite pertinent how many corners Boeing has cut over and over again—the company’s culture and management is obviously poisonous. I’m probably a minority of folks, but at this point I’m flying on airlines with the fewest Boeing Max generation planes in their fleet. I also don’t really trust the FAA to properly regulate Boeing after years of a close relationship—the recent groundings are the bare mi…

In contrast, the relatively recent Boeing 787 has an impeccable track record and has become the most comfortable long distance aircraft. Is it a matter of separate teams, managerial era, or something else? The models with issues appear to be the older ones with retrofits. Perhaps there are failure vulnerabilities when mixing today's computer-reliant design into past institutional-knowledge-reliant human design.

The 787 is absolutely plagued with quality control issues.

In particular, deliveries were stopped for almost two full years from September 2020 to August 2022, with more issues found recently. The Charleston plant is considered the worse one compared to Everett.

https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boein...

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#74

Post by JCM9 »

Also for historical context, United traces its name back to Boeing itself. “United Air and Transport Corporation” was a company that came out of operations founded by Mr Boeing. Thus for anyone that knows their aviation industry history, United saying they’ve lost faith in Boeing airplanes is a big ouch.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#75

Post by asylteltine »

Almondsetat wrote: post #61
lsllc wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Embraer and Bombardier for smaller aircraft.

Can they ramp up production?

They already supply a ton of smaller aircraft and short haul routes for regional carriers. They would not replace Boeing though

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#76

Post by croes »

WanderPanda wrote: post #29
eitally wrote: post #5

Actions have consequences. Boeing decided they wanted to focus on maximizing profits rather than allowing organic growth to follow on continued high quality engineering and services. In regulated industries, especially where safety is of utmost importance, this is exceptionally risky. They F'd around and found out, and imho the only solution is leadership and strategy changes to shrink their business and refocus on b…

They didn‘t maximize profits at all. Why do people operate on the principle „if it is bad it had to be because of maximizing profits“? This seems to be much more about corruption and misaligned incentives as well as bigcorp bullshit-job rot. There is really only one thing that can cure this and that is more fierce competition

>They didn‘t maximize profits at all.

There are multiple competing levels of profit maximization:

Short-term vs long-term

Personal vs. operational

Cheap vs. expensive

Easy vs. complex

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#77

Post by balozi »

Try as I might, I cannot see any upside for an airline chief executive to make this kind of statements publicly. Sometimes a CEO needs to know that they don't have to publicly announce their internal deliberations. Well...unless he was drunk when interviewed, or wanted to divert attention from bad financial results, or both.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#78

Post by asylteltine »

sagarkamat wrote: post #15
zwieback wrote: post #9

Other than Airbus, are there any alternatives?

Chinese COMAC seems to be on the verge of selling meaningful numbers to chinese airlines. Wont be surprised if they are a very viable competitor in ~20 years which isn’t much in the aviation world where backlogs span a decade

Ha, as if I would ever get on a Chinese plane. Have people learned nothing?

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#79

Post by taway789aaa6 »

wnevets wrote: post #59
eitally wrote: post #5

Actions have consequences. Boeing decided they wanted to focus on maximizing profits rather than allowing organic growth to follow on continued high quality engineering and services. In regulated industries, especially where safety is of utmost importance, this is exceptionally risky. They F'd around and found out, and imho the only solution is leadership and strategy changes to shrink their business and refocus on b…

> Boeing decided they wanted to focus on maximizing profits Except not really. The shareholders/board decided to gut the company so they can get richer with stock buybacks. https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/04/15/bailout-c...

> Boeing decided they wanted to focus on maximizing profits

> The shareholders/board decided to gut the company so they can get richer with stock buybacks

Are you not saying the exact same thing, just being more explicit about the implicit "short-term" profits?

The shareholders/board (e.g. Boeing...the decision makers) decided to gut the company so they can get richer (e.g. maximize [short-term] profits, since the profits accrue to the shareholders/board) with stock buybacks.

Re: United Airlines CEO says the airline will consider alternatives to Boeing

#80

Post by asylteltine »

dboreham wrote: post #40

This kind of enshitification is ultimately an emergent property of public market ownership. You can see the result of a controlled experiment by eating at McDonalds then at In-n-out Burger (one is public, the other private). I'd include PE under the public ownership category, despite the name.

In and out is SO overrated. Their burgers were meh and the fries were dry as hell. I would rather eat at McDonald’s any day of the week.

Public ownership is great and doesn’t necessarily lead to shitty products.

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