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Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

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Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#191

Post by sebazzz »

gambiting wrote: post #23
nicbou wrote: post #12

Speaking only for myself with no sense of authority: there's something in the air that I'm not the only one feeling. Something very subtle seems off. The water is a little hotter, but subtly enough to say "nah it's not like that". The way I see it, tens of thousands took to the streets to make damn sure it won't be like that on their watch. The AfD has gotten louder and stronger last year, and it's reaching further a…

It's everywhere, not just in Germany. Like you said, there's "something in the air". The rise of populism, rebirth of strong nationalism, is everywhere in Europe. I feel like wherever that tide is pushed back, it grows stronger in the background anyway. And the worst thing is, I don't really see how this could get better. Economic problems will continue to grow for at least several years, and one of the most contenio…

Read the Fourth Turning, I truly wonder if this is the “there is something in the air” thing.

> The Strauss–Howe generational theory, devised by William Strauss and Neil Howe, describes a theorized recurring generation cycle in American history and Western history. According to the theory, historical events are associated with recurring generational personas (archetypes). Each generational persona unleashes a new era (called a turning) lasting around 20–25 years, in which a new social, political, and economic climate (mood) exists. They are part of a larger cyclical "saeculum" (a long human life, which usually spans between 80 and 100 years, although some saecula have lasted longer). The theory states that a crisis recurs in American history after every saeculum, which is followed by a recovery (high). During this recovery, institutions and communitarian values are strong. Ultimately, succeeding generational archetypes attack and weaken institutions in the name of autonomy and individualism, which eventually creates a tumultuous political environment that ripens conditions for another crisis.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss%E2%80%93Howe_generatio...

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#192

Post by ryandrake »

suslik wrote: post #171
nvm0n2 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right's position in Europe is that it would like to preserve borders and stop people moving between countries. How is that similar to WW1 or WW2, which were wars intended to abolish all borders and allow citizens of certain countries to move and settle all over the continent against the will of the people who lived there?

> The right's position in Europe is that it would like to preserve borders and stop people moving between countries. That is the most charitable view possible - but let's say that's the case. What happens if they win and somehow achieve that? Will they just wash their hands and say - now we're done, enjoy, friends? No, politicians always need to stay in power. Those who don't - never get to power in the first place.…

People seem to forget that when you vote for a party, you are not just voting for their one, potentially-sensible position on an issue--you're voting for the entire basket of "other stuff" that comes with that party. And chances are, once elected, they'd rather work on that other stuff than the issue you care about.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#193

Post by egeozcan »

mantas wrote: post #120
patates wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woke What's wrong with being "woke"? People can't tolerate the fact that some still want social justice as supposedly "less equal" people rush into the country? Yeah? Then they should just say it! I just want people to openly express the racism in their minds without coming up with ridiculous terms like "anti-woke". Truth would be them saying "We don't want equality, we believe we ar…

Woke is way beyond equality to the point that it brings anti-equality policies. Wanting to control your borders and reduce migration is not a „privilege“. Nor it has anything to do with racism.

> Woke is way beyond equality to the point that it brings anti-equality policies.

How? Give an example.

> Wanting to control your borders and reduce migration is not a „privilege“. Nor it has anything to do with racism.

You can support reducing migration. That's nothing to do with being against woke or the point above.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#194

Post by nvm0n2 »

lukan wrote: post #189
nvm0n2 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was there a court case? I can only find reference to an accusation that he might have said in a speech "Everything for our homeland, everything for Saxony-Anhalt, everything for Germany", which apparently everyone should know shares the last three words with an SS slogan and that therefore saying it is indisputable signs of wanting to conquer Poland. Also Höcke claimed he didn't know this but, according to his critic…

"Was there a court case?" There were actually many: https://www.hessenschau.de/politik/demonstranten-duerfen-afd... "Die Staatsanwaltschaft Frankfurt hat ein Verfahren gegen einen Demonstranten eingestellt, der bei Anti-AfD-Protesten Björn Höcke als "Nazi" bezeichnete. Es handle sich hier nicht um eine strafbare Beleidigung, sondern um ein "an Tatsachen anknüpfendes Werturteil", so die Ermittler." So to be clear, the…

> So to be clear, the court did not declare him a Nazi. But close enough, that people may call him that.

That wasn't a court case, it didn't even go to court. If there are so many, why pick one that wasn't a case? Prosecutors dropped a potential case against a protestor and said it's not a criminal insult because it's (roughly translated) subjective but evidence based?

Germany has laws against being a Nazi. Either there's strong evidence he is one, in which case there should be a criminal finding of fact, or there isn't, in which case calling him that is surely slander. There's no First Amendment in Germany to protect such people. The prosecutor's press release goes off on a political attack on Höcke. They seem to have decided that he's not actually a Nazi but it should be OK to call him one anyway, because they don't like his politics. Very bad levels of political independence from such an office.

The claim about Dresden being a war crime is one I've seen many times. Even in Britain there are people who have argued that. It's like arguing the US shouldn't have nuked Nagasaki. How is that evidence of being a Nazi?

I'm not gonna spend the time to translate more of this. None of this stuff seems legit. The left always call everyone who isn't on their side a Nazi, this whole thing with this guy looks like more of the same. The Nazis openly called for the end of democracy and praised dictatorship. Where is the AfD doing that? This guy doesn't even run the AfD.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#195

Post by extractionmech »

flir wrote: post #180
extractionmech wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a new form of what we call colonialism I call this auto-colonialism . Certainly in the West (if not globally since as we know our “owners and masters” just met in Davos) there is clearly a super-layer that went ‘transnational’ and has been extracting wealth from its own people. And speaking of “own people” this is precisely why they do not give a flying F about “cultural heritage” and anything whatsoever that ‘cond…

An eeeevil plan to transform virtually every country in the world, for three decades, without a single leak? And all those type A personalities pulling in the same direction? That's incredible!

They have been fantasizing and publishing tomes on the topic for decades. Educate yourself. [<- not regarding your spelling in case it is not clear]

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#196

Post by on_the_train »

stby wrote: post #188
on_the_train wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet curiously, all those parties share the same politics in the relevant topics, and all work together to prevent the afd to take part in any (federal or local) government. Even where they have massive votes. That is not how the party system is supposed to work.

Even the parties in power hardly share the same politics on most topics.

I don't think that's true, at least if you look at the topics that Germans think are most important. Which are also the topics of the opposition. There we have statements of parties which are quite different. But effectively when they are part of the government, they all collapse to the same politics. In particular, the FDP and CDU are guilty of this. The others are completely interchangeable anyways.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#197

Post by leereeves »

patates wrote: post #184
t0bia_s wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "being woke".

From Wikipedia: > Woke is an adjective derived from African-American Vernacular English (AAVE) meaning "alert to racial prejudice and discrimination".

They are the biggest source of racial prejudice and discrimination, from anti-white attitudes like "it's impossible to be racist to white people" to DEI policies that openly discriminate against white people.

This isn't even hidden. Advocates proudly declare: "The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination."

Perhaps this is an instance of Goodhart's law (when a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure). Diversity is an excellent thing when it happens naturally as a result of equal opportunity.

But when diversity becomes the target, it inspires divisive race-based selection practices that people quite correctly fight against. That's surely a factor in the recent decline of the left.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#199

Post by wahnfrieden »

mschuster91 wrote: post #114
wahnfrieden wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?

Yes, I'm not kidding, and the police in Munich is ridiculously strict on enforcing this [1]. [1] https://twitter.com/PolizeiMuenchen/status/10477845680346767...

Geez. The German people are lost if their state ever turns full on fascist against their own.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#200

Post by cloverich »

piva00 wrote: post #181
sinuhe69 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascism and Communism. Two sides of the same coin. In fact, they are so similar even in their base, they ended up as mortal enemy of each other.

Can you expand on this point? It seems you are equating them just by virtue of authoritarianism, to me that's just one trait they share (and from which only Fascism has it necessarily in any instance it happens). I'd like to know what else you consider them to be so similar at to call "two sides of the same coin".

Authoritarianism is commonly discussed as the foundation of each, without which neither can exist. i.e. they are each offshoots stemming from authoritarianism, and cannot exist without it.
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