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Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

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Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#121

Post by soco »

hutzlibu wrote: post #96
shiroiuma wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass rallies in Berlin and Munich aren't going to do much about blatant racism in Saxony. That's a bit like an American thinking that activism in NYC is going to have a real effect on the mentality of people in rural Mississippi. The values of people in those different areas are extremely different, and the people in the economically "left behind" regions are actually going to feel even more attacked by these rallies…

There were also some rallies in saxony and more are scheduled for next weekend. Way lower in numbers of course, but it is something. And it is a wake up call for people to come together, before it is too late. "the people in the economically "left behind" regions are actually going to feel even more attacked by these rallies, most likely, since they already feel like their views are being ignored." And most of those…

The above point is, for the moment those people don't get many alternative solutions to their problems. Okay not "solutions" as what AfD proposes is not a solution, but alternative views. And it will be an uphill battle because as you noticed the neonazis ride the conspiracies wave, and that's something very difficult to fight...

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#122

Post by boffinAudio »

shzhdbi09gv8ioi wrote: post #26
nicbou wrote: post #12

Speaking only for myself with no sense of authority: there's something in the air that I'm not the only one feeling. Something very subtle seems off. The water is a little hotter, but subtly enough to say "nah it's not like that". The way I see it, tens of thousands took to the streets to make damn sure it won't be like that on their watch. The AfD has gotten louder and stronger last year, and it's reaching further a…

Yea, Kremlin supported AfD is having a success. Putin is happily destroying european unity while we let their propaganda hit us in social media daily. [1] The Russia induced Syrian migrant wave of 2015 sure helped undermine the current right wing popularity rise. [2] And Russias involvement in making brexit happen... [3] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AfD_pro-Russia_movement 2: https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-weapon…

>The Russia induced Syrian migrant wave of 2015 sure helped undermine the current right wing popularity rise. [2]

I think you mean the 5-eyes induced ME immigration that started in 2003 with the illegal invasion and destruction of 5% of Iraqs population, the subsequent invasion of Afghanistan, destruction of Libya, invasion and occupation of Syria by the West, and so on.

We (5-eyes and by proxy, Europe too) still occupy 1/3rd of Syria - its oil fields - specifically to prevent the Syrian people rebuilding their nation.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#124

Post by Throw84949 »

jansan wrote: post #117
Throw84949 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I bet those poor people are also disproportionately non-white! Yes, simply based on the fact that only non-European citizens can be deported. But what is interesting is that they are also disproportionately non-east-asian.

Not necessarily. Many refugees are from Ukraine, they can freely move to Germany, work there and apply for social benefits. I think Germany really needs similar rules for other countries, particularly in Africa and Middle East!

That would prove they are not far right once for all!

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#125

Post by soco »

DeathArrow wrote: post #85
hutzlibu wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"So they will finally give the people what they ask for? " How is that possible, when the people themself are divided? For example with weapon support for Ukraine: "Some 44% believe sending Leopard 2 battle tanks to Kyiv is the wrong decision, according to the results of a survey by pollster YouGov published on Sunday. At least 41% support the German government as it plans to send the first of 18 tanks to Ukraine " h…

>So where is the solution fitting everyone? What can the politicians do, to make everyone happy? Do it the Swiss way and ask people trough a plebiscite?

So let's say they would vote to keep it the today's way - as current majorities still tend to show. Will that appease AfD and the neonazis? No it wouldn't. As a Swiss I would say the Swiss way doesn't mean necessarily more educated voters, or more involved. But a better trust in the elected representatives, which the traditional German parties seem to lose.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#126

Post by boffinAudio »

nicbou wrote: post #12

Speaking only for myself with no sense of authority: there's something in the air that I'm not the only one feeling. Something very subtle seems off. The water is a little hotter, but subtly enough to say "nah it's not like that". The way I see it, tens of thousands took to the streets to make damn sure it won't be like that on their watch. The AfD has gotten louder and stronger last year, and it's reaching further a…

That "something in the air" is underlying guilt on the part of the West, for the mass crimes against humanity and war crimes which Europe and its partners in the 5-eyes has let occur, with impunity, since the illegal invasion and destruction of Iraq in 2003.

The Western nations know, intrinsically, that they are being run by war criminals - people such as Cameron and Macron, who have the blood of MILLIONS of innocent peoples lives on their hands, and yet: they are getting away without facing justice.

In such circumstances, you can be sure there is populist anger which can be deftly exploited by propagandists in the West to create movements conducive to their gaining more power as the war-criminal class fights to hide its crimes against humanity.

Until we prosecute our OWN war criminals we will have to shelter their victims. Period.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#127

Post by pAllain »

nicbou wrote: post #87
bitcharmer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth to look at the underlying cause for these sentiments gaining popularity and support in recent years. I'm pretty sure to some degree it has to do with native European populations being unhappy about illegal immigration and the problems arising from that. And before you call me a racist: mainstream media kept redefining the meaning of the word refugee for a while now. For example: refugees are expected to st…

I understand that refugees are a significant part of the perceived problem, but as an immigrant, I'm on line two of that Niemöller poem and I won't wait and see where Saxon farmers draw the line. I'm not surprised by any of this, but I'm definitely not feeling easy about it.

[flagged]

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#128

Post by vladvasiliu »

hutzlibu wrote: post #96
shiroiuma wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mass rallies in Berlin and Munich aren't going to do much about blatant racism in Saxony. That's a bit like an American thinking that activism in NYC is going to have a real effect on the mentality of people in rural Mississippi. The values of people in those different areas are extremely different, and the people in the economically "left behind" regions are actually going to feel even more attacked by these rallies…

There were also some rallies in saxony and more are scheduled for next weekend. Way lower in numbers of course, but it is something. And it is a wake up call for people to come together, before it is too late. "the people in the economically "left behind" regions are actually going to feel even more attacked by these rallies, most likely, since they already feel like their views are being ignored." And most of those…

I don't live in Germany, but your points seem similar to what I see happen on this side of the Rhine. But what are those people to do?

Their only weapon is the ballot. I don't know how elections work over there, but over here, blank votes aren't counted. You can't vote "against" someone while at the same time not voting for someone else. Don't like Macron nor Le Pen (the runner-up in the last elections)? Tough. Your opinion doesn't count.

So maybe they don't actually want the AfD in power, but hope that the incumbents get the message that they will get their asses voted out if they don't at least feign to listen. And you know that being in power is a politician's topmost priority.

Calling them racists and whatnot will very probably not help "non-nazis'" case.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#129

Post by boffinAudio »

aurareturn wrote: post #47

As someone who doesn't live in Europe and never set foot in Europe, it seems like the #1 issue is immigration - both legal and refugees. Am I correct?

The #1 issue for Europe is the participation in the USA/5-eyes war crimes regime, and the subsequent culpability for the heinous acts committed by the West on the very nations where Europe is getting a majority of its refugees from.

Middle-East refugees are coming here to EUROPE to escape OUR wars. Until we prosecute the war criminals involved, the immigration issue is not going to resolve.

Make Damascus Great Again, and you won't have Syrian orphans burning cars in Paris ... rebuild Mosul and Raqqa, and the immigrant kids whose lives were torn apart by those atrocities will have somewhere other than Cologne in which to party.

It is OUR wars which are forcing these much-derided immigrants to flee their nations and find refuge in the one places WE are not dropping bombs - our own nations.

Until we stop this, there will be victims of our wars attempting immigration to safer places .. our own back yards, of course.

Re: Tens of thousands protest in Germany against the rise of the far right

#130

Post by JodieBenitez »

patates wrote: post #115
t0bia_s wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideology that tries to make wired and pathological behavior and ideas a normal thing and try shame others for not adopting it will never be accepted by majority. We have democracy, not dictatorship.

> Ideology that tries to make wired and pathological behavior and ideas a normal thing What are you referring to? Read some history on being "woke", what part is problematic?

> what part is problematic?

The zealots are problematic.

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