Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

When America first dropped acid

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 185 posts

Re: When America first dropped acid

#141

Post by QuercusMax »

ethanbond wrote: post #111
Workaccount2 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a not insignificant amount of evidence pointing to psychedelics as playing an outsized role in the formation of religions. A shaman brewing a mystical drink that gives you visions of supernatural forces is pretty convincing evidence of a god(s) to your any 2000 B.C. person. How else could you explain such a trip while having no concept of chemicals much less neurochemistry.

Alternatively you can also meditate/pray your way to similar states as the ones psychedelics induce. It takes a ton of practice, but I was able to generate very notable open-eyed hallucinations after just 2 years of low-intensity meditative practice (roughly equivalent to 120ug of LSD). It is totally believable that a true religious zealot would be able to achieve much, much more with decades of practice.

Ram Dass told the story about how he visited the guru Neem Karoli Baba (AKA Maharaj-ji) and gave him a bunch of LSD, which supposedly had no effect on the guru because he was already having open-eye hallucinations from his meditation.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/baba-ram-da...

Probably BS, but matches with what you say.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#142

Post by benbreen »

buildsjets wrote: post #140
benbreen wrote: post #85

Author of the book under review here. AMA! One thing I thought would be helpful is to link to the YouTube video described in the opening paragraph: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMF-cyHAaSs It's from a 1957 CBS documentary series called "Focus on Sanity" that featured interviews with Aldous Huxley and Gerald Heard, among others. I found it fascinating and my questions about it were actually one of the motive forces…

Hi author! Given the timeframe of the subject, I was surprised to see no mention in the New Yorker article of Al Hubbard, who was well known to be involved in that early era, both in developing now common therapeutic practices such as the use of the Hubbard Room, and working to expose as many influential cultural, religious, industrial, government, and military figures to the experience as possible. Was there any col…

He's in there! In fact I decided to cut several pages on him, since a lot has already been written. Michael Pollan's How to Change Your Mind, among other books, has a lot of detail that I couldn't add much to.

Hubbard was important, to an extent, but one of the things I'm trying to do is draw out the larger social and intellectual circle that surrounded the more famous names. So to just to take on example, Betty Eisner was (I would argue) significantly more important than Hubbard both in developing the concept of set and setting and in developing psychedelic therapy in general.

She actually released a memoir online before her death, which is fascinating reading and has a lot of quotes from original letters (some of which I consulted at Stanford, which has her archive): https://erowid.org/culture/characters/eisner_betty/remembran...

Re: When America first dropped acid

#143

Post by aidenn0 »

bhk wrote: post #138
ethanbond wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think your first claim is true. It was "introduced" by psychiatrists and various philosophical zealots. MKULTRA attempted to research it to see if it could be used for the purpose you describe. Without MKULTRA, LSD still hits the US and still causes some cultural tremors.

"The LSD movement was started by the CIA. I wouldn't be here now without the foresight of CIA scientists." -- Timothy Leary Subproject 6 of MK-ULTRA involved funding Eli Lilly to develop its own synthesis of LSD. The CIA embarked on this to ensure an adequate supply after finding that Sandoz had produced only 40 grams total of LSD. After Lilly succeeded, the CIA became the main customer, and via various other subproj…

> only 40 grams total of LSD

Isn't that quite a lot of LSD?

Re: When America first dropped acid

#144

Post by OkayPhysicist »

profsummergig wrote: post #104

I've never dropped acid. Net-net, what's best in your (whosoever is reading this) opinion? 1. To never drop acid. 2. To try it out a couple times and never do it again? 3. To add it as part of one's regimen as and when one needs it?

If you've never done psychedelics, then at a bare minimum it will be a novel experience. Generally, my philosophy towards life applies a positive value to novelty, which is of course often balanced against other concerns (e.g., I'm not looking to eat anybody for ethical reasons far outweighing the novelty), and since psychedelics generally don't have substantial reasons NOT to try them, I'd recommend trying it at least a couple times.

LSD is a pretty safe choice of psychedelic, since very few things are dangerous at the dosages that you take LSD at, so the most likely "I didn't get what I paid for" scenario is you getting some formerly damp paper. If you have a family history of schizophrenia, it might adjust your risk calculus, but otherwise safety isn't a big concern.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend it as the first mind-altering chemical someone uses, since the 6+ hour trip time can be brutal if midway through you freak out, which is typically caused by being uncomfortable with the idea that your brain can be under the influence. But if you've drank and smoked cannabis, you're probably relatively comfortable with the idea that your mind can be temporarily altered by chemicals.

But on the whole, I think the fundamental novelty of the experience, in that there is absolutely nothing else like it, makes it worthwhile to try out. If you enjoy it, then it can find its spot in a broad collection of recreational activities, and if you don't, then at least you've experienced it, and it'll be done and dusted in a day or so.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#145

Post by lemonberry »

profsummergig wrote: post #104

I've never dropped acid. Net-net, what's best in your (whosoever is reading this) opinion? 1. To never drop acid. 2. To try it out a couple times and never do it again? 3. To add it as part of one's regimen as and when one needs it?

Try a very small dose with someone you trust that has experience with it. If things get dark having someone around that knows how to help you out of it will make a world of difference. Setting and company has a huge influence on what your experience is like.

Taking LSD is a skill. If you're paying attention and have a modicum of self-awareness you'll get better at it. What does it mean to get better at taking LSD? It's the ability to have your entire being torn inside out but still able to remind yourself that it will end and that you'll be fine. It's analogous to be being caught under water by a big wave: thrash and let fear take over and you're in trouble. If you can relax and let the wave pass you'll be fine.

Other than those with PTSD I don't think anyone needs it. I do it to help with my sobriety and to keep a fresh outlook on the world and myself, but psychedelics are just some of the tools in my toolkit.

It can be fun, it can be terrifying, it can be enlightening, it can be disappointing.

If you try it, good luck! If you don't try it, good luck!

Re: When America first dropped acid

#147

Post by [deleted] »

mock-possum wrote: post #139
matrix87 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because psychedelics wake up the part of the human psyche that understands religion

That would require that religion exists outside of human experience, to be discovered and understood and awoken to - which is a nice story, but not strictly true. There is no religion, outside of what we imagine. We made it up. It isn’t like the water cycle, it’s not something just waited to be discovered by humans who know how to look for it. Religion is fantasy.

[deleted]

Re: When America first dropped acid

#148

Post by matrix87 »

mock-possum wrote: post #139
matrix87 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because psychedelics wake up the part of the human psyche that understands religion

That would require that religion exists outside of human experience, to be discovered and understood and awoken to - which is a nice story, but not strictly true. There is no religion, outside of what we imagine. We made it up. It isn’t like the water cycle, it’s not something just waited to be discovered by humans who know how to look for it. Religion is fantasy.

> There is no religion, outside of what we imagine.

You're making a metaphysical claim here, good luck proving it

Someone mentions religion and you come along and decide to attack it with the same cliche. Why?

Re: When America first dropped acid

#149

Post by latchkey »

ijhuygft776 wrote: post #137
latchkey wrote: post #55

I recently ran out of gummies. Thanks to things being legal now, I just went to the handy Eaze website to do an order. $70 of goods + $30 in taxes and fees. Is this what libertarians mean by "taxation is theft?"

https://tor.taxi

Too late, I just got my delivery. Thanks though!

Re: When America first dropped acid

#150

Post by [deleted] »

mock-possum wrote: post #139
matrix87 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because psychedelics wake up the part of the human psyche that understands religion

That would require that religion exists outside of human experience, to be discovered and understood and awoken to - which is a nice story, but not strictly true. There is no religion, outside of what we imagine. We made it up. It isn’t like the water cycle, it’s not something just waited to be discovered by humans who know how to look for it. Religion is fantasy.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN