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When America first dropped acid

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Re: When America first dropped acid

#111

Post by ethanbond »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #98
asveikau wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, but ignoring this somewhat, I offer this: One remarkable thing is how the hippie stuff often induced by chemical manipulation of serotonin receptors mirrors a lot of religious messages. You can take slogans like "peace on earth, love your neighbor, love is all you need" and say, is that hippie stuff? Or is it, say... The message attributed to Jesus? In that sense, you don't really need the drugs or counte…

There is a not insignificant amount of evidence pointing to psychedelics as playing an outsized role in the formation of religions. A shaman brewing a mystical drink that gives you visions of supernatural forces is pretty convincing evidence of a god(s) to your any 2000 B.C. person. How else could you explain such a trip while having no concept of chemicals much less neurochemistry.

Alternatively you can also meditate/pray your way to similar states as the ones psychedelics induce. It takes a ton of practice, but I was able to generate very notable open-eyed hallucinations after just 2 years of low-intensity meditative practice (roughly equivalent to 120ug of LSD).

It is totally believable that a true religious zealot would be able to achieve much, much more with decades of practice.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#112

Post by ethanbond »

graublau wrote: post #7

America was introduced to LSD via CIA's MK-ULTRA program. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKUltra 'to channel youth dissent and rebellion into more being and non-threatening directions' - FBI internal memo

I don't think your first claim is true. It was "introduced" by psychiatrists and various philosophical zealots. MKULTRA attempted to research it to see if it could be used for the purpose you describe.

Without MKULTRA, LSD still hits the US and still causes some cultural tremors.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#113

Post by 1letterunixname »

codingdave wrote: post #102
1letterunixname wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent find. I heard perhaps urban folklore from an old-timer former journalist that the LSD trade was monopolized by a single criminal syndicate in the 50's. There are still some haunts with local regulars not overrun with suits, squares, or tourists.

Why would a criminal syndicate in the 50s monopolize a drug that was not illegal at that time?

[flagged]

Re: When America first dropped acid

#114

Post by dumpsterdiver »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #46
Wonnk13 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm a stage 4 cancer patient and now there's a real fire under my ass to do a heroic dose. I talked to my therapist about it and he was like yea, here's this website where you can order some chocolate bars. My jaw hit the floor. I thought he was referencing the darkweb, but nope just a typical site in Canada I think. I'm still incredibly new to it all and would love to grow my own at one point. I'd also love to kn…

DO NOT just go and do a heroic dose on your own if you are not VERY experienced.

Agreed. Definitely calibrate your internal register for “this is what taking mushrooms feels like” using a low dose. IMO it’s especially important to familiarize yourself with the anxiety / exhaustion that can occur as the drug takes effect.

I’ve always considered myself someone who can “maintain their shit” pretty well on drugs (granted, I rarely do drugs recreationally, my mushroom schedule is maybe once or twice a year these days). The few times I’ve hit a bit of turbulence has always been on the come-up or come-down. For mushrooms the comedown has always been smooth for me, but going up I’ve noticed a vague sense of anxiety until the full wave hits.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#116

Post by matrix87 »

dingnuts wrote: post #109
matrix87 wrote: post #99

I used to do psychedelics frequently and tried really hard to get something out of them. Up until the last time I dropped acid, I just got high and came down. The last time I ever did a psychedelic, I dropped acid and was reading this book called "Be Here Now" by Ram Dass. There's a part of the book that talks about drug induced psychosis. There's some illustration of lightning hitting a tower. I remember turning the…

>When I started doing them I wasn't able to believe in God, after that experience I could meanwhile, the experience of general anesthesia basically took away my ability to believe in God one in one out, I guess. It seems like I'd be happier if I'd gone the other way but one can't control what one believes

I'm sorry. I didn't know that anesthesia could do that kind of thing

Re: When America first dropped acid

#117

Post by progmetaldev »

profsummergig wrote: post #104

I've never dropped acid. Net-net, what's best in your (whosoever is reading this) opinion? 1. To never drop acid. 2. To try it out a couple times and never do it again? 3. To add it as part of one's regimen as and when one needs it?

I think it can be very worthwhile, but I would wait until something internal calls you to use it. If you don't feel a draw to it, I would suggest not ever trying it. If you decide to use LSD, I would make sure to take it with others that have experience using it, and that you deeply trust. It's very easy to let go of your ego and spill every secret in your head, and you'll want to make sure you're around people that won't be judgmental of that. Personally, I think moderation is definitely key, and this is coming from someone that did not use moderation and ended up in a bad place because of abuse. I was psychologically addicted, and I believe it helped exacerbate latent anxiety. I was always somewhat anxious, but it made my anxiety clinical and negatively life affecting. I still think that it has its place, and can be extremely profound and positively life changing. Make sure you are in a good head space with people you trust, in surroundings that won't drastically change for the length of your experience.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#118

Post by asveikau »

nwiswell wrote: post #101
matrix87 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because psychedelics wake up the part of the human psyche that understands religion

That doesn't seem right. I think of the brain as a "rationalization machine". It observes environmental inputs, and reflexively seeks to ascribe a cause for those inputs. In so doing, a causal model of the world is constructed (whether accurate or not), allowing the agent to make intelligent decisions about what actions to take in order to produce desired outcomes. What hallucinogenic drugs tend to do is overwhelm th…

> highly valuable causal model of reality,

It's important to not become too confident in this either. Our perception of that is as you say useful but also subjective and flawed, and I think if you get down to pure materialism, it's harder to pin down than you may think.

Even something basic which seemingly we all agree on at a basic level and require to function, trying to answer questions like "what is time?", you quickly can end up with mind bendy examples from physics where the intuitive understanding falls apart.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#119

Post by asveikau »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #98
asveikau wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, but ignoring this somewhat, I offer this: One remarkable thing is how the hippie stuff often induced by chemical manipulation of serotonin receptors mirrors a lot of religious messages. You can take slogans like "peace on earth, love your neighbor, love is all you need" and say, is that hippie stuff? Or is it, say... The message attributed to Jesus? In that sense, you don't really need the drugs or counte…

There is a not insignificant amount of evidence pointing to psychedelics as playing an outsized role in the formation of religions. A shaman brewing a mystical drink that gives you visions of supernatural forces is pretty convincing evidence of a god(s) to your any 2000 B.C. person. How else could you explain such a trip while having no concept of chemicals much less neurochemistry.

It's an interesting theory that I've heard before, and I think it did probably play a role at least some of the time, but I think we need to be cautious about attributing too much to it. I think people who have interest in drugs often may get excited about this idea and push it a little far.

My point is you don't necessarily need chemical inducement to start or sustain the idea. Centuries of religious people believed in transcendent consciousness at times in history where they demonstrably had no access to drugs. You don't need to partake to be moved by John Lennon's all you need is love either; a lot of the people listening did not. And part of our cultural norms have these ideas baked in, with or without drugs.

Re: When America first dropped acid

#120

Post by nyolfen »

profsummergig wrote: post #104

I've never dropped acid. Net-net, what's best in your (whosoever is reading this) opinion? 1. To never drop acid. 2. To try it out a couple times and never do it again? 3. To add it as part of one's regimen as and when one needs it?

it is basically analogous to porn -- what porn serves for your sex drive, acid and psychedelics generally do for your desire for meaning and insight. occasionally you will hear of someone who finds it therapeutic for trauma or something, but for most people, even those who claim to have found great truths, it makes no material impact on the course of their lives, unless it is a negative one from emotional destabilization if they are vulnerable for whatever reason. it can still be fun and worth doing as a novelty but it is dangerously oversold imho.
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