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What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

arstechnica.com

181–190 of 230 posts

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#181
If you want to see this idea explored even more, I highly recommend watching "For All Mankind" on Apple TV+. My description below hopeful does not contain spoilers.

A Fantastic show for tech optimists, imagining a world where Russians were the first to land on the moon. This spurred increased investment by the US, continuing the space race, avoided the cold war, adoption of EVs in the 80s, massive action on climate change, and many other fun things. I wishfully think of "what could have been", and a world that seems attainable.

One of the recurring plot points is Executive action taken by astronauts in space, wars avoided and caused by their decisions, brave rescues and other heroics. In one of the episodes a characters takes such an action.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#182
post #170
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sure there are scenarios that might require it? Maybe fire? Not in orbit. In orbit there is no scenario where you want to open that hatch. And the lock was only installed in orbit.

Uncontrolled fire inside the shuttle? I'm not sure if there are enough suits / sealable spaces to make that a viable scenario.

In such a case the crew would be dead whatever they did. Even if we assume there were enough suits for everyone to evacuate the Shuttle through the hatch (which AFAIK there weren't), and that people were able to evacuate before the fire caught them (which is unlikely), they would still be stuck in orbit with suits having only enough air for a few hours (the length of an ordinary EVA) and no way to get back to Earth.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#183
post #71

> On the second day of the mission, Wang floated over to his experiment and sought to activate the Drop Dynamics Module. But it didn't work. He asked the NASA flight controllers on the ground if he could take some time to try to troubleshoot the problem and maybe fix the experiment. But on any Shuttle mission, time is precious. Every crew member has a detailed timeline, with a long list of tasks during waking hours.…

“If some people shouldn’t go to space nobody should go to space” is not a compelling argument against people going to space, sorry.

I'm not saying that at all. If you want to go visit space I'm all for it -- the robots can look after you. I'm interested in doing so myself.

But I don't deceive myself by claiming that there is significant scientific value beyond the self-referential "see how people survive in space." If I end up in orbit it'll be entirely for entertainment value.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#184
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it has a name... I'm sick and tired of flashback overuse in recent series, mostly to explain the feeeeelings of the characters and so justify their stupid behaviour. But this must be the ultimate abuse: most of the story is a flashback. Ouch!

[flagged]

History and flashback are not equivalent terms. Most history books do not open with a dramatic moment at a critical juncture of [historical event] and then flip back and forth between the lead-up and the dramatic moment to maintain narrative tension. This is sensationalism; it's literally designed to keep you on the edge of your seat.

And no, Homer does not use this technique in the Iliad, other than brief verbal allusions back to the original cause of the Trojan war. The Iliad starts in the middle of the conflict, but doesn't repeatedly skip the narrative backward in time; the plot is linear and the the dramatic tension comes from wondering if/when the champion warrior Achilles is going to stop sulking over a perceived insult and rejoin his army to fend off the Trojans.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#185
post #172

I saw trust being mentioned, but I don't really get it. Space is one of the most unnatural environments people can go to. Of course brains that had evolved for life on Earth can malfunction in such completely artificial spaces. Same for airplanes, or submarines, or modern warfare. There was a tense moment in Das Boot where the engineer suffered a mental breakdown while the sub was stuck on the ocean floor and the cap…

Yes, the resistance to something as simple as padlocking a hatch baffles me - it's like their integrity is being impugned by taking a simple and common sense precaution?

> the resistance to something as simple as padlocking a hatch baffles me

We keep hatches simple to facilitate egress [1]. A padlocked hatch must be reliably unpadlocked.

[1] https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary/lunar/apollo1info.html

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the “both sides”/“race horse” mentality in political reporting. A race isn’t interesting if isn’t competitive. But beyond that, the centrist impulse is definitely to bolster the weaker side, especially if that side is unattractive and feckless.

Agreed, + Bandwagon Effect, Tactical Voting, plus other effects? I haven't come across a term that covers what we're talking about in full scope(?)(hence my clumsy tug of war metaphor), but that's probably because I am peripheral to game theory / not in the psychology space (We have lots of terms for the emergent effects - Overton window, Political Polarization etc. - But possibly not for the overall phenomena of why…

Some people have zero sympathy for viewpoints that differ from their own, which leads to individual polarization. But some people have an excess of such sympathy, which can contribute to collective polarization.

They are very worried about being fair-minded. They see a vocal minority as social proof that the minority viewpoint is sincere, thoughtful and worthy of consideration. Neither is a bad assumption to start with, but it's not a great place to end the thought process.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#187

If you hate the format of these kinds of article let me summarize: Guy builds an experiment, flies it, it doesn't work, requests more time to get it working, is denied, threatens 'not to come back', goes into a depression, worries crew that he'll open the door to space, eventually granted more time to work on the experiment, gets it working. There are consequences for letting this kind of person fly and dealing with…

Thank you so much. I don’t always mind long form articles when they justify their length, but this one would have been better if it started with your summary, followed by the some nitty gritty details, followed by meta analysis interleaved with yet more nitty gritty details.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#188
"We put a lock on the door of the side hatch," Fabian said. "It was installed when we got into orbit so that the door could not be opened from the inside and commit hara-kiri, kill the whole crew. [...]

I know this is mostly oral history, but that's just not what that means and the writer should have corrected or omitted it.

Hara-kiri means the act of self-disembowelment in a Japanese ritual suicide (seppuku). Not the suicide or the ritual in general, and certainly not killing everyone else in the process, which is Not A Thing in Japan. There were historically sympathy suicides by loyal retainers over matters of honor, but they were voluntary and permission had to be sought in advance. Killing a bunch of other people in despair over your own problem is just murder in Japanese culture, and doesn't have any social legitimacy or a special name.

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#189
post #67

When did Ars Technica start splitting articles into multiple pages? I thought that stupid trend died out 10 years ago. It just results in me abandoning the article on page 1.

At least for me, whenever I have Javascript enabled for that site, it automatically loads all the pages (sometimes with a slight delay) as if the article had a single page. It only appears as multiple pages when I have Javascript blocked, which is usually the case (I have uBlock Origin configured to block Javascript by default).

Re: What happens when an astronaut in orbit says he's not coming back?

#190
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just saying something is "long form" because you counted the words is silly. This is Ars Technica. They aren't long because some fifth grade teacher gave them a minimum amount of pages. If the article has some length, it's because it takes the subject seriously and doesn't compromise on nuance and context just for clicks.

> If the article has some length, it's because it takes the subject seriously and doesn't compromise on nuance and context just for clicks. And yet it feels fluffy. The incident could be described in a single paragraph. The response could be an other. The organisation of the crew training and how it effected the incident could be third, while future instances when the lock was used could be a fourth. So about 800 wor…

    Because the article is going on and on while not answering 
    any of the basic questions I have: what did factually happen 
    in the cabin? Did he just say what he said and then went 
    sulking? Did he move closer to the hatch? Was he trained on 
    how to operate the hatch? How long did the fix take? What 
    were the consequences on the schedule? What were the consequences 
    on the experiment itself? (Did it perform as intended after the 
    fix or did it only hobble?) Why did they had highly trained 
    payload specialist if they were not given latitude to perform 
    fixes? You don’t need a physicist to push buttons on a schedule. 
    Did NASA let any further payload specialist who had this deep 
    connection with one of the experiments on? Were fixes performed 
    by the payload specialist a normal thing ever?
About half of these were answered in the story, so I don't know, maybe you skimmed it too quickly. Read it again?

As for the rest, the author of the article went to some lengths to explain why information is scarce: most of the crew members are no longer living, Wang won't comment, and NASA apparently prefers not to remark on such a sensitive topic.

It's still quite an informative article, even though (by the author's own admission) questions remain unanswered. If the alternative was to simply not publish the article, I think they chose correctly. I certainly know a lot more about the topic than I did before reading it, which is a fine metric.

    But they could say: “oh, the actual incident is just a jumping 
    off point, the article is about the human factors
Two thoughts here. One: you seem to have made that connection on your own, so kudos! I guess they didn't need to say it. Two: I mean, how would you have liked them to be more explicit about this?
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