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Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

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301–310 of 440 posts

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#301

Can I offer a suggestion - focus on non-code developer use-cases. It is still wildly difficult to integrate a VCS system into a document-based application, yet this could improve many, many engineering and science applications that rely on text files (simulation configurations, pre- and post-processing setups, semi-manual entry data-backed "dashboards", etc). This is a problem that really needs solving and I don't se…

I think this is a great approach. Just looking at the comments here - I'm not sure how many devs would jump for a git replacement.

However, anything that solves version control for all of the non-code cases is VERY compelling.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#302
post #131
post #126

Git cli UX made be not great, but the git datastructure of representing commits, branches, trees and blobs as immutable pointers and merkle trees is a phenomenal invention. I don't agree with every command needs to hit some REST api. That seems like throwing the baby away with bathwater. The most powerful thing about git is that I can work fully offline with a partial clone. And sync the commits when I get online. Gi…

Yep, exactly! I remember these "happy" SVN days as well. It sucked, git was much better. Today you're almost never offline though, you even have wifi on airplanes. Git's datastructures are a masterpiece, for sure

> Today you're almost never offline though, you even have wifi on airplanes.

The airplane wifi is good enough to look up an API, but it's not good enough to sync a code repo, especially one with large assets.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#303
post #180

As a game dev I find the pitch unexciting. > git is bad we're better Honestly, a modern git lfs workflow is really smooth. I think it handles binaries fine. Show me cumbersome git feature and why this works better. You can't just tell me tools I use every day are unusable. I think the main pain of git is if you want to put everything in a single repo. Big isn't a problem, getting just what a I need (checking out a si…

Game dev here, totally agree. File-locking across branches excited me, support for visual diffing of uassets would be insane. The platform screenshots as a git/github alternative didn't excite much interest as Plastic and Perforce are major players.

Other game devs mentioned visual diffing as well, we'll try to make this happen!

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#304
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! We're definitely not trying to bash Git, it's done a lot of good for software development and for sure is going to continue evolving. Git had much more edge when it was competing vs SVN and other centralized VCSs. With 10Mb networks (if you were in office) you could feel physical pain when committing stuff > Reg how Git is not perfect in the cloud world - check out GitHub's blog post here about their cloud de…

I'm not sure I understand this at all. > The problem is the way Git works, it clones your entire repository into the container with your cloud environment, using a slow network protocol. What about git's network protocol is 'slow'? I think I can also come up with a pretty simple experiment to prove or disprove this: 1. Fill a file with 13Gb of data and commit it. 2. Upload that to GitHub or wherever you want 3. Time…

If you use the dumb http protocol, both cases should be equally fast.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pitch simply wasn’t true. Data was not destroyed and was restored hours later.

For many of us, the story rings true. We have ourselves had horror stories that we did manage to recover from after a few hours of fearfully googling, and we know of other, less capable friends and colleagues who were unable to recover the data and who just accepted the loss.

It's kinda crazy argument, I think data loss is way more likely with a centralised system than a decentralised system.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#306
post #297

> Cloud-Native Git Alternative Not sure if this is a good summary of the product. For one, cloud-native is an implementation detail, unless the company plans to sell the new VCS as packaged software instead of service. For two, I'm not sure how being cloud-native addresses any issue with my daily interaction with Git. > The biggest drawback of Git is its limited scalability I wonder how many people really has this pr…

Monorepos are indeed causing problems with git, and this is one of the main arguments against them (see [1]). Some companies are building their own solutions (Google, Meta), and some are splitting their monorepos because of these problems. IMO if a company wants to run a monorepo for their reasons, they shouldn't be limited by their VCS. The technical details are for the readers who want to know, I agree it's not rea…

Having an effective monorepo at scale will also require an entire infrastructure to solve all the problems that a poly-repo must solve and more. In particular,

- Partial download, as a monorepo will quickly grow too large for a single person to download. This is trivial for poly-repo but requires dedicated system for monorepo.

- Dependency management. With a decently sized monorepo, one can't compile everything and test everything. So, someone needs to build a dependency manager to track all the DAGs, and build only the DAGs that are impacted by a commit. One also has to build a trackign mechanism for deploying different build artifacts because a team may deploy all the build artifacts in different date and time. We will need more sophisticated build tools too.

- Build infrastructure. Even with a perfect dependency-tracking system, we may still end up building large-enough source code that we need to build the code in parallel.

- Directory-level access control. This is also trivial for poly-repo since the granularity is at repo-level, but it requires dedicated implementation for a mono-repo.

I'm not sure if the marginal benefit of having a monorepo can justify the investment for most of the companies. Google created monorepo initially to manage the dependencies of C++ code, and Perforce already supported partial downloads. But with more modern languages that have their own way of dependency management? I'm not so sure about the benefits. Making refactoring easier? How many repos are really shared at source level across multiple teams in a company? Encouraging sharing source and therefore knowledge? Isn't it a solved problem? Any decent company allows searching source code at semantic level across multiiple repos. If I want to see the source code of a particular package in my IDE, it's just a click away. Note I'm emphasizing marginal return of monorepo. Case in point, Google maintains the very use Guava library, which is probably used by millions of engineers. Does it lead to pains of incompatibility errors at runtime across different releases? Absolutely. Is it worth changing my poly-repo to monorepo to solve the problem? I highly doubt so. The compatibility issue happens rarely given good testing setup. When I do need to migrate my code, the cost is bi-modal: either the refactoring is trivial, or it requires serious testing and design changes, which a monrepo will not help anyway.

Note I'm not saying that monorepo is not useful. Instead, I question how many companies will benefit from switching to monorepo, which may lead to the discussion on the potential market share of Diversion.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#307
post #300
post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monorepos are indeed causing problems with git, and this is one of the main arguments against them (see [1]). Some companies are building their own solutions (Google, Meta), and some are splitting their monorepos because of these problems. IMO if a company wants to run a monorepo for their reasons, they shouldn't be limited by their VCS. The technical details are for the readers who want to know, I agree it's not rea…

> Monorepos are indeed causing problems with git, and this is one of the main arguments against them (see [1]). The article is a disappointing read. It spends a lot of time talking about monorepos and how they spell all sorts of trouble. Yet, the article makes zero mentions of submodules as a way to get the best of both worlds.

Submodules are great, but they're hardly an alternative to monorepos.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand this at all. > The problem is the way Git works, it clones your entire repository into the container with your cloud environment, using a slow network protocol. What about git's network protocol is 'slow'? I think I can also come up with a pretty simple experiment to prove or disprove this: 1. Fill a file with 13Gb of data and commit it. 2. Upload that to GitHub or wherever you want 3. Time…

It is perhaps worth pointing out that if you don't need the history you can just `git clone --depth 1` and save the network transfer and disk space.

It reminds of when someone told me git submodules are slow.

They just forgot about shallow clones..

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#309

Can I offer a suggestion - focus on non-code developer use-cases. It is still wildly difficult to integrate a VCS system into a document-based application, yet this could improve many, many engineering and science applications that rely on text files (simulation configurations, pre- and post-processing setups, semi-manual entry data-backed "dashboards", etc). This is a problem that really needs solving and I don't se…

Thanks for the feedback! We actually encountered a similar usecase. SaaS tools that need to version user-generated data and configurations. We're offering an API so this can be done easily. What you offer can also be done. I'm not sure it's a huge market though, meanwhile lots of developers that can't work with Git (e.g. games) are looking for solutions, we're seeing a real need there. But we might branch out to other things, for sure.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#310
post #207
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As for losing data with Git, the easiest way to accomplish that is with data that hasn't been committed yet Also Git has pretty awful behavior losing changes when one doesn't press "Save" in their IDE. Bad, bad Git.

Your applications also shouldn't lose work when you don't press save, this is the entire impetus for the "recover unsaved work" in most document editors. A version of Git that shunted uncommitted changes to a special named stash whenever you did anything destructive would be a positive thing. It's what I end up doing manually anyway but why make a system where the default behavior is destructive and I have to remembe…

I can't say I'm widely traveled, I have no idea how desktop Office works, but Apple does this so well.

Using their desktop apps, Pages, Keynote, Numbers, TextEdit, Preview, I never hit "Save". I just close the apps. When I come back, the windows reopen right where I left off.

I wish emacs did this. I honestly don't know what it would be like for a code editor to be "constantly saving". I guess I would adapt, but there are times when I do all sorts of changes and go "Ah, this isn't right" and just kill the buffer. The ultimate undo.

But there's a great feeling, to me, when I go to close the app (or shutdown the computer) and it just closes. No prompts, no warnings, just saves its state, shuts down, and comes back later. And with the ever popular "naming things" issue of computers, I have a bunch of just "Untitled" windows. They're there when I open the app, and that's all I need to know.

The nag factor and cognitive load reduction of that is just unmatched. "Just deal with it, I'll come back later, maybe, and clean it up". One less thing.

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