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Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

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Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#211

Post by lowbloodsugar »

MrDarcy wrote: post #129
swells34 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you just sold their pitch with this comment... I, like many many people here, have done quite a bit of product design. What do you call it when a bunch of people use your product, and it breaks for several of them? That generally indicates your product is weak, or has a very rough UI.

The pitch simply wasn’t true. Data was not destroyed and was restored hours later.

For many of us, the story rings true. We have ourselves had horror stories that we did manage to recover from after a few hours of fearfully googling, and we know of other, less capable friends and colleagues who were unable to recover the data and who just accepted the loss.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#212

Post by Einenlum »

sasham wrote: post #44
guax wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

--force always imply data loss. You're overriding the remote state. Do people use it in an unsafe manner because they don't understand git and there lies a problem that could be tackled? yes. With that, I don't think git has any feature that is unsafe by default.

In that specific case there was some error that the user didn't understand, he googled and found a StackOverflow answer with --force. And naturally tried it BitBucket didn't have branch protection back then, today it's a bit better (you can still destroy your work but usually not others')

I agree that git is very complex (just try reading its documentation and how many options or commands you have never heard of before). But I think push --force is probably one of the easiest git concepts to get. The fact that someone in your team copy pasted something from SO without understanding it doesn't seem to be related to git. Otherwise we could say that the fact some people lose their data through "sudo rm -rf /" proves the complexity of Unix. I don't think so.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#213

Post by xorcist »

grumbel wrote: post #163
funcDropShadow wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a force push doesn't destroy the reflog or runs the GC server-side. I wonder how you can accidentally loose data with Git. I've seen lot's of people not being able to find it, but really destroying it is hard.

> doesn't destroy the reflog or runs the GC server-side. Git doesn't give you access to the server side reflog either. So it's of not much use if you don't control the server. As for losing data with Git, the easiest way to accomplish that is with data that hasn't been committed yet, a simple `git checkout` or `git reset --hard` can wipe out all your changes and even reflog won't keep record of that.

That data not committed to git can not be recovered by git should hopefully not surprise anyone.

Neither is it the fault of your version control system, or any other system really, if you cannot access your server and are without backups.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#214

Post by hasty_pudding »

acidburnNSA wrote: post #157
hasty_pudding wrote: post #101

1. git is not hard if you learn it 2. I regularly see people storing multiple gigabyte files in git.. I don't understand your issue with large files. 3. cloud native? why? part of the point of git is to have a repo decentralized away from centralized clouds onto dev's machines, if your data scientist broke git then that means your main branch configuration is off, no one else had that cloned onto their machines, and…

> 1. git is not hard if you learn it I basically agree. People want to just pick up a tool like git and have it just work without investing much time in it. I can understand this desire in a complex world with many tools, but something as powerful as git is really worth learning. I swear if people spent like 1 hour a day for a week in actual git training, and then did refreshers 1 hour a month as they were using it o…

I don't even use that stuff 99.9999% of the time.

You can literally get by with knowing like 5% of git and be extremely productive with it.

that other stuff does come in extremely handy for troubleshooting or fixing mess ups, but people struggle with just the very basics of git.

what you need to be productive with git can be learned in a morning.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#215

Post by renewiltord »

sasham wrote: post #43
funcDropShadow wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even a force push doesn't destroy the reflog or runs the GC server-side. I wonder how you can accidentally loose data with Git. I've seen lot's of people not being able to find it, but really destroying it is hard.

He force pushed a diverged branch or something like that, and we only found out after a while. We were eventually able to recover because someone didn't pull. But it was not a fun experience :D

Just somewhat surprised because if anyone did a `git pull` they'd get divergent history and therefore a merge on default configuration. It would take a lot of manual work to ruin more than one copy of the repo.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#216

Post by gavinhoward »

midnitewarrior wrote: post #178
gavinhoward wrote: post #102

Disclaimer: I am designing a Git alternative too. Maybe "cloud native" will have a pull for game companies, but I am not so sure. I think a lot of studios would want to self-host. "Git compatible" is an interesting phrase; does Diversion use the same type of backing store? If so, I am not so sure it will handle large files as well as hoped. I had to solve this problem myself, and I did, but it required a different st…

> I am taking zero VC, and that will allow me to make money on as few as three clients. A VC would give you legitimacy to help you get the customers you need. What large customers are going to back you with their business unless they know there's some deep pockets behind you? There are few things more valuable than a business's source code, it encapsulates all of their business processes and is how all of the busines…

You make good points.

My VCS is designed for self-hosting, not cloud.

I will support customer installations, not host customer source code.

I am hoping that customers see less of a need for deep pockets in that case.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#217

Post by withinboredom »

IshKebab wrote: post #54
guax wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

--force always imply data loss. You're overriding the remote state. Do people use it in an unsafe manner because they don't understand git and there lies a problem that could be tackled? yes. With that, I don't think git has any feature that is unsafe by default.

> With that, I don't think git has any feature that is unsafe by default. Well, you just mentioned `--force`. It is unsafe by default. Git has a couple of flags to make it safer (`--force-with-lease`, `--force-if-includes`) but those aren't the default.

If you’ve ever had to remove private information from history before making the repos public (think domains, names, configuration, etc) you will appreciate the ability to rewrite history (and all the other things --force gives you)

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#218

Post by jasfi »

rajeevk wrote: post #16

I have not analyzed the full potentials and benefits of Diversion but I would not agree with the statements you made about the Git. I think you should not focus on Git in your pitch. >> it was built for a very different world in 2005 (slow networks, much smaller projects, no cloud) Slow network: why is this a negative thing? If something is designed for a slow network then it should perform well in a fast network. Mu…

The complexity people think they face with Git can often be overcome with a good UI and/or tutorials.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#219

Post by Spivak »

gertop wrote: post #168
graemep wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How common are repos bigger than Linux? Linux also has the huge advantage of an ecosystem, tools and integrations. It is overkill for small projects and there are friendlier alternatives for those - but git wins because it is what everyone knows. Something aimed at the small number of large projects will suffer the same problem.

> How common are repos bigger than Linux? In terms of number of commits, Linux is probably bigger than most. In terms of storage size, almost any video game project will be significantly bigger. It's no secret that git is very bad at handling large binary files.

You don't even need game assets, your company's icon library is likely enough to tip the scales into territory git doesn't handle well.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#220

Post by renewiltord »

CJefferson wrote: post #93
guax wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

--force always imply data loss. You're overriding the remote state. Do people use it in an unsafe manner because they don't understand git and there lies a problem that could be tackled? yes. With that, I don't think git has any feature that is unsafe by default.

My biggest problem with git is branch deletion — if you never do it you end up with far too many, but deleting a branch can’t be version controlled.

It is somewhat version-controlled but not completely. If you use the reflog you can find it again and you can find how it moved around. But the reflog gets rewritten and gc'd so it's not true vc.
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