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Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

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Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#141

Post by dboreham »

Quick note to say that discussions like this are asymmetric: the git aficionados are very sure about their opinions that it's fine. The people who believe git isn't great are unsure if perhaps they're holding it wrong or don't understand how to use it. So what you see in a thread like this is 90% posts strongly asserting that the OP is wrong while the potentially large number of people on the other side are scratching their heads, not posting.

fwiw, I think they're pretty much right.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#142

Post by ajross »

> We’re planning to release it as open source once the code base matures

FWIW, historically this has meant "we'll release it it we fail". If the product has actual market value and is attracting investment, you'll never win that fight with your backers unless you make the decision preemptively before they write their checks.

To be clear again: I don't doubt your sincerity here. I'm just saying that by the time the "code base matures" it won't be solely your decision to make, and that I don't trust the other stakeholders.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#144

Post by nine_k »

funcDropShadow wrote: post #136

> The biggest drawback of Git is its limited scalability - both in repository and file sizes, and the number of concurrent users. How did you come to the conclusion Git isn't scalable in the number of users? There is no limit in the number of users with Git. There may be limits in the number of interaction between those users, i.e. pull/merge requests, clones, fetches etc. But they are mostly limited by humans. A cen…

The number of concurrent merges is definitely a problem. With a few hundred developers committing to the same repo all day, it becomes a chore to make sure that their commits can still be put on top of each other, and that one out-of-sync commit is not holding back a bunch of others which depend on it.

This all is solvable, both through discipline and tools. But if a VCS has a built-in capability to alleviate this, it's a good thing.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#146

Post by dafelst »

throwaway63467 wrote: post #6

Perforce seems to already fill this niche pretty well, at least in the gaming sector which this startup seems to target.

It does, but perforce is a horrible slow beast, and not as reliable as you might expect.

That said, for large game projects, it really is the only viable option.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#147

Post by fidotron »

sasham wrote: post #108
fidotron wrote: post #92

As others have mentioned I believe you underestimate the security requirements (often physical) imposed on game studios. Running P4 (and using the often publisher mandated tape backups) is the least of your problems in such an environment. If diversion were to succeed it would need a huge security team because it would represent far too tempting a target. Games stuff inspires a level of attack which normal businesses…

Thanks for the feedback! Totally true, I was surprised by how much emphasis on security there is in game studios. They are moving to cloud however, and we're hoping that a private cloud solution (Diversion running on their cloud account) would satisfy the requirements, at least a few years from now as cloud usage grows. Security is definitely going to be super important for us, in any case.

You need to stop worrying about the cloud and focus on being agnostic to things like VPNs, on premises and so on. (Also SSO mechanisms). Any cloud needs to be optional. If you can make it easy to deploy on a private cloud where everyone accesses it via corporate Google accounts but also deploy on prem (say containerized) with Active Directory integration you will cut a lot of noise.

Game artists will increasingly not trust the cloud as it is where their data goes to train AIs, but more pressingly a large proportion of asset development is done where the network (and electricity) is surprisingly flaky.

To be specific I have been involved in several situations where we were not allowed to mention things in email due to it being cloud hosted, and those restrictions were imposed by companies that are themselves cloud providers. That is the kind of level being discussed.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#148

Post by graemep »

IshKebab wrote: post #59
rajeevk wrote: post #16

I have not analyzed the full potentials and benefits of Diversion but I would not agree with the statements you made about the Git. I think you should not focus on Git in your pitch. >> it was built for a very different world in 2005 (slow networks, much smaller projects, no cloud) Slow network: why is this a negative thing? If something is designed for a slow network then it should perform well in a fast network. Mu…

> When Micorosoft adopted Git for Windows, they faced this problem and solved it. On Windows. On Linux Git still doesn't scale well to very large repos. Before you say "but Linux uses git!", we're talking repos that are much bugger than Linux. Also the de facto large file "solution" is LFS, which is another half baked idea that doesn't really do the job. You sound like you're offended that Git isn't perfect because y…

How common are repos bigger than Linux?

Linux also has the huge advantage of an ecosystem, tools and integrations. It is overkill for small projects and there are friendlier alternatives for those - but git wins because it is what everyone knows. Something aimed at the small number of large projects will suffer the same problem.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#149

Post by bruh2 »

andsoitis wrote: post #134
sasham wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! We're definitely not trying to bash Git, it's done a lot of good for software development and for sure is going to continue evolving. Git had much more edge when it was competing vs SVN and other centralized VCSs. With 10Mb networks (if you were in office) you could feel physical pain when committing stuff > Reg how Git is not perfect in the cloud world - check out GitHub's blog post here about their cloud de…

> Thanks! We're definitely not trying to bash Git, it's done a lot of good for software development and for sure is going to continue evolving. It is not about bashing git; it is about anchoring your argument of why Diversion is a better alternative around git. You're basically taking your game/arguments to their playing field, and thus will have an uphill battle for mindshre. Instead, consider reframing the playing…

I personally would not bother reading any "the future of X" if it did not address problems of existing tools. I know you're trying to give advice from a marketing pov, and it is good, but it's also inherently bulshitty – because its purpose is to net more sales rather than actually make a good argument

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#150

Post by ho_schi »

With Git we can work autonomously, fast and distributed. The nice thing about Git is that it works on a B747* and the a cabin in the woods and on a file-server at MIT.

I will not make myself dependent on a proprietary cloud-service which requires an internet connection and reoccurring payments.

* Internet isn’t fast there. If it is available. If it is affordable. If you want ruin the precious time separated from the internet.

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