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Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

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Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#131

Post by sasham »

nojvek wrote: post #126

Git cli UX made be not great, but the git datastructure of representing commits, branches, trees and blobs as immutable pointers and merkle trees is a phenomenal invention. I don't agree with every command needs to hit some REST api. That seems like throwing the baby away with bathwater. The most powerful thing about git is that I can work fully offline with a partial clone. And sync the commits when I get online. Gi…

Yep, exactly! I remember these "happy" SVN days as well. It sucked, git was much better. Today you're almost never offline though, you even have wifi on airplanes. Git's datastructures are a masterpiece, for sure

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#132

Post by funcDropShadow »

NateEag wrote: post #76
bauruine wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So multiple people did a git reset --hard origin/master and nobody complained or checked what and why this was done? That's not "one data scientist with the wrong command" but the whole team that fucked up hard IMHO.

And the tool made a screwup that hard not only possible, but very difficult for the victims to recover from. Doesn't say a lot for git's usability.

They used --force which is usually the flag to say: Here there be dragon. Be careful.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#133

Post by gumby »

oblio wrote: post #120
gumby wrote: post #60

It's about time someone revisited & reimagined version control. the previous generations each lasted about 15 years: SCCS/RCS -> CVS -> Bitbucket/git/mercurial -> ??? so I am glad to see this. I would start by talking about what is great about Diversion -- what it lets you do that you couldn't before. Since you mention gaming and perforce I looked in vain to see if it supports binaries (a major limitation of git -- j…

> SCCS/RCS -> CVS -> Bitbucket/git/mercurial You skipped Subversion/SourceForge. People forget but for about 5 if not 10 years, SVN was the biggest SCM in town, next to P4, P4 having more of a hold in the game dev world.

I not only did not forget about subversion, I funded it in part. But it was of the CVS generation.

I did leave out the proprietary things like Perforce and Aide de Camp, Solidworks PDM and the various in house things. Life's too short!

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#134

Post by andsoitis »

sasham wrote: post #37
rajeevk wrote: post #16

I have not analyzed the full potentials and benefits of Diversion but I would not agree with the statements you made about the Git. I think you should not focus on Git in your pitch. >> it was built for a very different world in 2005 (slow networks, much smaller projects, no cloud) Slow network: why is this a negative thing? If something is designed for a slow network then it should perform well in a fast network. Mu…

Thanks! We're definitely not trying to bash Git, it's done a lot of good for software development and for sure is going to continue evolving. Git had much more edge when it was competing vs SVN and other centralized VCSs. With 10Mb networks (if you were in office) you could feel physical pain when committing stuff > Reg how Git is not perfect in the cloud world - check out GitHub's blog post here about their cloud de…

> Thanks! We're definitely not trying to bash Git, it's done a lot of good for software development and for sure is going to continue evolving.

It is not about bashing git; it is about anchoring your argument of why Diversion is a better alternative around git. You're basically taking your game/arguments to their playing field, and thus will have an uphill battle for mindshre.

Instead, consider reframing the playing field and mention git less (if at all). Something like "the future of version control is blah". Surprise us, talk to us about your vision for source control, or better yet, code and multi-discipline collaboration (e.g. between eng and design), etc.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#135

Post by CJefferson »

AdityaSanthosh wrote: post #125
CJefferson wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My biggest problem with git is branch deletion — if you never do it you end up with far too many, but deleting a branch can’t be version controlled.

Just curious, why do you want that to be version controlled?

Because I might realize later I made a mistake, or I might want to view history.

I’d I never cared about historical state and mistakes, I wouldn’t need version control at all :)

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#136

Post by funcDropShadow »

> The biggest drawback of Git is its limited scalability - both in repository and file sizes, and the number of concurrent users.

How did you come to the conclusion Git isn't scalable in the number of users? There is no limit in the number of users with Git. There may be limits in the number of interaction between those users, i.e. pull/merge requests, clones, fetches etc. But they are mostly limited by humans.

A central system, even a cloud-native system, has far more contention points in operations that are not even interactions between users, i.e. status, commit, etc.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#137

Post by JeremyNT »

NateEag wrote: post #76
bauruine wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So multiple people did a git reset --hard origin/master and nobody complained or checked what and why this was done? That's not "one data scientist with the wrong command" but the whole team that fucked up hard IMHO.

And the tool made a screwup that hard not only possible, but very difficult for the victims to recover from. Doesn't say a lot for git's usability.

A couple of thoughts about this:

One is that the possibility of overwriting history / etc is a really powerful and useful feature, but one that should only be used with some consideration, hence being gated behind the scary '--force'. The fact that git provides one the ability to discard and overwrite commits for a ref shouldn't be an endorsement of doing so freely. I'm glad git has this capability though and any "git alternative" would be all the worse if it didn't provide it, IMO.

Two is that if the concern is git's usability - i.e. the "problem" here is that it's too "easy" for users to do destructive actions accidentally - well, there are ways to solve that other than to reinvent all of git. There are plenty of alternative git UIs already, and an alternative UI is a great way to be "wire compatible" for existing users but still help protect those novice users from footguns.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#138

Post by gumby »

sasham wrote: post #128
VyseofArcadia wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And why cloud native? And what even is cloud native? When "cloud native" isn't just marketing, it seems to have all sorts of different meanings.

We're using S3 storage, lambda and ECS compute, and serverless DBs. It allows us to build a scalable product much faster, and leverages cloud features like multizone backups and distribution without having to develop these ourself. It also allows fast transfer of data between Diversion and other cloud systems.

Those are things that matter to you not your users.

You did talk a little (in a comment or your post I don't remember) that you can use various cloud APIs to integrate into other systems.

But at the moment, from what you're telling me "cloud native" is as interesting to me as how you format your source code.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#139

Post by igorguerrero »

hasty_pudding wrote: post #101

1. git is not hard if you learn it 2. I regularly see people storing multiple gigabyte files in git.. I don't understand your issue with large files. 3. cloud native? why? part of the point of git is to have a repo decentralized away from centralized clouds onto dev's machines, if your data scientist broke git then that means your main branch configuration is off, no one else had that cloned onto their machines, and…

This comment is harsh, but the reality.

Re: Launch HN: Diversion (YC S22) – Cloud-Native Git Alternative

#140

Post by lifeofguenter »

rajeevk wrote: post #16

I have not analyzed the full potentials and benefits of Diversion but I would not agree with the statements you made about the Git. I think you should not focus on Git in your pitch. >> it was built for a very different world in 2005 (slow networks, much smaller projects, no cloud) Slow network: why is this a negative thing? If something is designed for a slow network then it should perform well in a fast network. Mu…

Have you ever tried running Git in the cloud? :)

Cloud-native and running things on “EC2” are very different things.

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