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Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

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Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#141

Post by tw04 »

Apreche wrote: post #9

While the industry as a whole makes a lot, the majority of individual anime and manga make next to nothing. It’s a few very popular properties that make all the dough. If people were paid fairly, most productions would be untenable. There would be just a few anime per year instead of many. But also, how would the popular ones come to be? Every new property would be a huge gamble. As an anime and manga fan, I actually…

> If people were paid fairly, most productions would be untenable. There would be just a few anime per year instead of many.

>But also, how would the popular ones come to be? Every new property would be a huge gamble.

So give the artists their current meager salaries and bolster it with a percentage of profits?

Seems really easy to fairly compensate the artists.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#142

Post by astrange »

nitwit005 wrote: post #78

> because people just don't particularly care enough to look through the glass. No, I suspect absolutely everyone with any knowledge of animation knows animators are paid terribly. The article itself has a meme image about the pay.

Western animators aren't paid that terribly, just anime animators, and only some of them.

But part of the compromise that Western animation does to be more productive is that it all looks bad. There's a fake-anime style Superman cartoon on I saw that has the artistic quality of maybe a Japanese elementary schooler. And then Netflix makes animated sex comedies that look like old Flash cartoons.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#143

Post by tomcam »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #101
lacrimacida wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly 100% but high enough to keep greed in check after a certain cap

Why tax income? Wealth should be taxed. The problem is hoarding, not doing valuable work. For example, owning land that is empty or an empty building for years just so it appreciates deprives the community. Tax the shit out of it so it forces the owner to use it productively or sell it so someone else can figure out how to use it productively.

If you use your car only couple of days a week, should you be taxed more on your car than someone who uses theirs every day of the week? What about a piano you haven’t practiced on for a few years? The expensive ski boots you haven’t touched since high school?

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#145

Post by astrange »

kelnos wrote: post #47
chasing wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have free will, but large groups of people are at an extreme negotiating disadvantage versus individuals or small groups that can more easily plan and coordinate -- and who happen to control the resources. This is why we need things like unions and government regulations: Not to unbalance things in favor of workers but to help achieve some amount of balance between owners and employees.

Agree that these animators should work to unionize if they want to improve their situation. But I think for professions like these, the "they have free will" argument is pretty compelling. If they were being exploited in a low-skill, low-status job, where there are few to no alternatives, sure, definitely an industry that needs worker protections. But no one needs to be an animator at a big anime studio to survive. T…

> But no one needs to be an animator at a big anime studio to survive.

The problem is mostly in the small studio space, where a lot of them are freelancers. There are a few studios like KyoAni/PA Works/ufotable that use mostly their own employees and pay better.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#146

Post by dclowd9901 »

Apreche wrote: post #9

While the industry as a whole makes a lot, the majority of individual anime and manga make next to nothing. It’s a few very popular properties that make all the dough. If people were paid fairly, most productions would be untenable. There would be just a few anime per year instead of many. But also, how would the popular ones come to be? Every new property would be a huge gamble. As an anime and manga fan, I actually…

Unionization sounds like the answer here.

What does Japanese culture think about unionization?

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#147

Post by astrange »

ekianjo wrote: post #130
iosystem wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Maybe not free will in philosophical terms as we are all programmed in some way or another by our parents, our education, our environment, etc... but we certainly have enough amount of Free Will to change jobs...

Economics doesn't use "free well" to model labor markets, but it does have search costs and monopsonies. You can't wait for the ideal job to appear because you might starve first.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#148

Post by Goronmon »

imgabe wrote: post #133
Arainach wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses do not have an inherent right to exist. If you can't pay a living wage, comply with regulations, and be profitable, your business model is not valid and your business should fail and close. Predictions of dire consequences rarely pan out. Fast food employees in Seattle are earning $15-20/+ per hour and prices did not double - in fact they're not significantly higher than in neighboring counties with lower…

Employees also do not have a right to any particular career. That's nice that people have a dream to make anime for a living. I hope they get to realize it. But the world does not owe them a particular wage for what they want to do just because it's a job that they want. If you can't make enough money doing a certain job, maybe go get a different job then.

I'm not convinced that workers shouldn't have any rights or protections. That sounds like a pretty extreme viewpoint. Or just one coming from an employer's perspective where I can see why you might desire no limits on treatments of workers.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#149

Post by astrange »

andirk wrote: post #84
nextworddev wrote: post #65

Then who’s making money?

Probably the Japanimation upper brass. I don't watch it but most of the characters look identical with the good guys being Japanese but looking like white Americans: large eyes, fair skin, tall, voluptuous. Maybe it's easy to find those animators since their skillset is the same across the board.

That's called mukokuseki. They don't look like anime Americans, who are either black or blonde with blue eyes.

And executives getting paid super-well is an American thing. They don't get paid well in Japan either. Nobody does.

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