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Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

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Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#101

Post by lotsofpulp »

lacrimacida wrote: post #93
tomcam wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it your thought that a 100% tax rate would increase the productivity of those being taxed at that rate? Or even leave it unchanged?

Not exactly 100% but high enough to keep greed in check after a certain cap

Why tax income? Wealth should be taxed. The problem is hoarding, not doing valuable work.

For example, owning land that is empty or an empty building for years just so it appreciates deprives the community. Tax the shit out of it so it forces the owner to use it productively or sell it so someone else can figure out how to use it productively.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#102

Post by vlovich123 »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #95
huytersd wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s never going to happen unless they unionize. People are not going to voluntarily turn down jobs as a collective everywhere at the same time in mass numbers.

But then by definition, that’s what their labor is worth. Unions can be a stopgap measure, but they can’t correct the underlying market forces. Or at least, I haven’t seen particularly persuasive evidence that unions can do more than make everyone collectively equal, which implies that everyone in X industry would be paid the same, or based on seniority rather than merit. Not my cup of tea, but I’m also privileged no…

> I haven’t seen particularly persuasive evidence that unions can do more than make everyone collectively equal, which implies that everyone in X industry would be paid the same, or based on seniority rather than merit. Not my cup of tea, but I’m also privileged not to have chosen a field suffering from a surplus of labor.

It sounds like you actually have a wildly incorrect view of how unions can and do work. you may want to do some more reading and research. For example, the WGA and SAG unions do not pay based on seniority nor does everyone make the same. They do mandate minimums for certain kinds of work but that’s about it. They also have rules about what the studios can and can’t do.

That being said, it probably does come at the cost of fewer people being able to find employment than the talent pool exists but it’s hard to measure / support that claim considering there’s more actors and writers now than ever before.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#103

Post by [deleted] »

imgabe wrote: post #100

$25 Billion what? Revenue? Profit? Total Transactions? That is a meaningless number without some context. It's also not a whole lot for an entire industry. Why is that supposed to mean that animators should be paid more? They could be making $25 billion in revenue and have razor thin margins or be losing money already.

[deleted]

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#104

Post by [deleted] »

madrox wrote: post #3

When I read things like this, I think back on my experience in games and entertainment. I believe that the more generally prestigious the industry is, the more likely it is to see worker exploitation. Part of your pay is wrapped up in getting to brag that you work in industry X on product Y. Almost by definition, that means young, passionate labor. Industry leaders quickly learn how to exploit the young and passionat…

[deleted]

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#106

Post by ndriscoll »

iosystem wrote: post #46
dsugarman wrote: post #13

People have free will; market rate is driven by supply, demand and economics of production and revenue. It's similar to people in the US willing to forfeit their financial future to see taylor swift live and the reseller market understanding and exploiting the market dynamics. Are the resellers the problem? or is it inevitable when people value the financial security of the rest of their lives less than seeing taylor…

[flagged]

While I personally believe in so-called super determinism (really just determinism), an obvious implication is that we don't have a choice in whether we believe in anything, or how we react to anything. Therefore, to the extent that you're able to make a choice about how to behave given that knowledge (which is to say, not at all), you'd might as well choose to behave as if you are able to make choices. Then if you're wrong about free will, you don't act erroneously. If you're right, you never had the option to choose how to act on that belief anyway.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#107

Post by steveBK123 »

huytersd wrote: post #31
steveBK123 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like a collective action problem. Any industry with enthusiasts or which is itself a hobby is subject to this behavior. People need to stop being so naive as to accept poorly paid jobs because they think the subject matter is 'funner'. Game Devs are the first example I thought of here. If you love games, that's great.. but why not go work in literally any other software dev work for maybe 2x the pay and/or 1/…

That’s never going to happen unless they unionize. People are not going to voluntarily turn down jobs as a collective everywhere at the same time in mass numbers.

Yes, that is why I defined it as "This is like a collective action problem."

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#108

Post by pcwalton »

kelnos wrote: post #47
chasing wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do have free will, but large groups of people are at an extreme negotiating disadvantage versus individuals or small groups that can more easily plan and coordinate -- and who happen to control the resources. This is why we need things like unions and government regulations: Not to unbalance things in favor of workers but to help achieve some amount of balance between owners and employees.

Agree that these animators should work to unionize if they want to improve their situation. But I think for professions like these, the "they have free will" argument is pretty compelling. If they were being exploited in a low-skill, low-status job, where there are few to no alternatives, sure, definitely an industry that needs worker protections. But no one needs to be an animator at a big anime studio to survive. T…

> They're there because they want to be, and many/most/(all?) could find gainful employment in an adjacent industry or field where they'd have better pay.

This isn't actually true. Occasionally animators can pivot to UI or graphic design, for example, but often times not. Animation is fairly specialized.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#109

Post by chocolatkey »

Before making conclusions about animator wages being due to lack of this or that, please watch this informative video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iExwO1v_V-s It covers a point that I am not seeing the discussion here, about the role that anime production committees play in the wages of animators and gatekeeping in the industry in general. This channel has other informative videos on the subject as well.
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