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Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

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Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#11
post #3

When I read things like this, I think back on my experience in games and entertainment. I believe that the more generally prestigious the industry is, the more likely it is to see worker exploitation. Part of your pay is wrapped up in getting to brag that you work in industry X on product Y. Almost by definition, that means young, passionate labor. Industry leaders quickly learn how to exploit the young and passionat…

minimum acceptable labor practices enshrined in law have a long term effect of reducing tragic outcomes for individuals, and the costs associated with that.. combine that with whatever ethical or moral system you may consider, and that starts to say why "anything goes" is an undesirable situation over decades.

that said, there are no other countries like Japan, so what works there has limited applications elsewhere, even for casual conversation.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#12
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with your diagnosis, but I don’t see why it’s considered to be a problem. Why shouldn’t people be free to trade off salary against other desirable traits in a job? Even at the extremes?

[flagged]

The "children" (i.e. working adults) have to go well out of their way to work on games and anime and know how much it pays. The mines (for real) in developed countries actually pay really well and are sometimes unionized.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#13
People have free will; market rate is driven by supply, demand and economics of production and revenue. It's similar to people in the US willing to forfeit their financial future to see taylor swift live and the reseller market understanding and exploiting the market dynamics. Are the resellers the problem? or is it inevitable when people value the financial security of the rest of their lives less than seeing taylor for one night?

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#14
post #7
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with your diagnosis, but I don’t see why it’s considered to be a problem. Why shouldn’t people be free to trade off salary against other desirable traits in a job? Even at the extremes?

I tend to agree with you. In the end, salary reflects what the market will put up with, and if you're not willing to take a salary hit to work in games, someone else will. This is why I don't think regulation will fix this. It has to be on the individual to decide what's right for them.

Yeah let’s get rid of minimum wage while we’re at it.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#15

searches for "union" hahaha yep, this word exists in this article but entirely in the context of how Japanese animators have absolutely no union. I ain't saying the US animation union is perfect but at least there is one; if I hear that some big production like Spiderverse2 is at a non-union shop then it's off my list to bother seeing, even via piracy. I trained to be in this industry and burnt right the fuck out fro…

Does Japan have a labor movement? I would expect not a strong one.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to agree with you. In the end, salary reflects what the market will put up with, and if you're not willing to take a salary hit to work in games, someone else will. This is why I don't think regulation will fix this. It has to be on the individual to decide what's right for them.

Yeah let’s get rid of minimum wage while we’re at it.

100% would agree.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#17
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with your diagnosis, but I don’t see why it’s considered to be a problem. Why shouldn’t people be free to trade off salary against other desirable traits in a job? Even at the extremes?

[flagged]

When the alternative is starving, they do. The problem isn't children being allowed to work in mines. The problem is the lack of superior alternatives available to them.

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#18
post #10
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree with your diagnosis, but I don’t see why it’s considered to be a problem. Why shouldn’t people be free to trade off salary against other desirable traits in a job? Even at the extremes?

[flagged]

I might be missing some context due to your curt response.

Are you implying that mines were once considered a high-class "cool" job to have, like working at Google, Uber, SpaceX, or Twitter was a decade+ ago (and still is today for many?)?

What is the connection here, exactly?

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#19
post #3

When I read things like this, I think back on my experience in games and entertainment. I believe that the more generally prestigious the industry is, the more likely it is to see worker exploitation. Part of your pay is wrapped up in getting to brag that you work in industry X on product Y. Almost by definition, that means young, passionate labor. Industry leaders quickly learn how to exploit the young and passionat…

minimum acceptable labor practices enshrined in law have a long term effect of reducing tragic outcomes for individuals, and the costs associated with that.. combine that with whatever ethical or moral system you may consider, and that starts to say why "anything goes" is an undesirable situation over decades. that said, there are no other countries like Japan, so what works there has limited applications elsewhere,…

I agree

Re: Anime is a $25B industry that pays its animators pennies

#20

Then by definition, that’s what their time is worth. It should alarm animators that they’re paid so little. It alarmed me as a gamedev when I saw how much webdevs earned in comparison. It’s partly why I left, and I was much happier for it. No amount of legislation or shame articles will change the reality that market forces have profound effects, and these effects are difficult to break. Unions try. To my knowledge,…

This is like a collective action problem. Any industry with enthusiasts or which is itself a hobby is subject to this behavior.

People need to stop being so naive as to accept poorly paid jobs because they think the subject matter is 'funner'. Game Devs are the first example I thought of here.

If you love games, that's great.. but why not go work in literally any other software dev work for maybe 2x the pay and/or 1/2 the hours.

As Don Draper said 'That's what the money is for'.

Plenty more money and time to buy & play games.

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