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Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

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Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#141

Post by ang_cire »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #113
throwaway421967 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you were given "information about categories", Anything under 3 should be an auto-reject because it does not meet the standard. "standard" usually implies that it's an outside rule from a regulatory body/certification agency that you need to conform to. It's such a weird question to ask in the first place.

I dont think standard usually means codified. It is also frequently used to mean typical, or within expectation. It this example, outside law or regulation on standard creativity and utility seem pretty unlikely. There is also a pretty big difference between standard (singular) and standards (plural), where the latter is more likely to imply a set of minimum requirements.

The very first line item (Scale number 1) uses "standards" plural: "Far below standards"

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#143

Post by [deleted] »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #39

I am very close to obtaining an elementary school teaching degree (46 of 49 credits completed), and as of this year I am a full time teacher at a private school (which doesn't have to care whether I officially have a license). My masters program is considered among the best in the state. Unfortunately, I don't have many good things to say about my masters program. The majority of my classes have been interesting but…

[deleted]

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#144

Post by paulcole »

billdueber wrote: post #136

Reminder to everyone commenting here: you are not an average student. The hard part of teaching is not coming up with dynamite lessons for kids who are smart and want to learn and are capable of doing so and aren’t hungry. Anyone can do that. Well, almost anyone. Way back in the olden times, 5 to 10% of people went to school, and it worked really well for them. Now everyone goes to school, and it works really well fo…

I promise you, this site is not as special as you think it is.

The majority of people here are incredibly average (like me!), just fortunate to be born at the right time, be exposed to technology at the right time, get a few other lucky breaks, and of course put some work in.

It’s super easy to convince yourself that because you’re successful you must be special. Remember that people tend to ascribe their successes to themselves and their failures to someone else.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#145

Post by s1artibartfast »

ang_cire wrote: post #141
s1artibartfast wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think standard usually means codified. It is also frequently used to mean typical, or within expectation. It this example, outside law or regulation on standard creativity and utility seem pretty unlikely. There is also a pretty big difference between standard (singular) and standards (plural), where the latter is more likely to imply a set of minimum requirements.

The very first line item (Scale number 1) uses "standards" plural: "Far below standards"

weird

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#146

Post by pard68 »

ren_engineer wrote: post #60
pard68 wrote: post #5

Makes sense to me. I attended public school all my life. Everyone I knew more or less had the same out look on formal education, means to an end, can I just get the spark notes, thanks. In college I interacted with a strange life form called a "homeschooler". Almost without exception they were smarter, better read, and had a desire to learn. Educating children seems to be far more than degrees, licenses, and CE credi…

all the best teachers I had in public school were people who got into teaching after having an actual career because they had actually lived in the real world. Most of the "teaching" is just stuff mandated by the government and taught via lesson plans created by the book companies. another issue is that teachers get promoted based on years in the system or by getting more useless degrees, rather than on how well they…

Now that you mention it, my best teachers were all men who made careers for themselves in the military before retiring and going into education.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#147

Post by sesm »

growingkittens wrote: post #87

The long-term impact is much more ambiguous to measure. I paid particular attention in school when a teacher would explain why they were trying to teach us something. I noticed the same patterns of teaching among different teachers in the same school system, and how it all worked together to reinforce the skills we needed. (Note: many of my peers experienced the "extra" work as pointless, because they didn't understa…

Good point. In short, I would rephrase it as "if your measurement doesn't show the difference between trained and untrained teachers, maybe your measurement is wrong?"

There 2 other plausible hypothesis that the article ignores:

1. What if untrained teachers are effective because they learn on the job from trained teachers? Which means that you have to have certain % of trained teachers to keep the system alive.

2. What if trained teachers become less effective because they drop their standards looking at how untrained ones work? This is a common phenomenon at workplaces, and I've seen it happen in software development many times.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#148

Post by Wowfunhappy »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #138
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #39

I am very close to obtaining an elementary school teaching degree (46 of 49 credits completed), and as of this year I am a full time teacher at a private school (which doesn't have to care whether I officially have a license). My masters program is considered among the best in the state. Unfortunately, I don't have many good things to say about my masters program. The majority of my classes have been interesting but…

This answer made me unreasonably angry. Apparently to become a teacher in New York, you're not allowed to use your brain. "We are not told any information about categories being weighted and therefore we cannot pay special attention to the low safety score." means exactly the following when you're talking about a playground : "Congratulations, all the kids love this creative, high quality playground! Unfortunately th…

> I agree with another commenter, you should name and shame, this is beyond stupid and deserves to be called out as the idiocy it is.

You do you want me to name, exactly?

The tests are made by Pearson Education. The website for the certification tests is https://www.nystce.nesinc.com/.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#149

Post by reducesuffering »

germinalphrase wrote: post #130
dan-robertson wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much approximately do you think a teacher gets paid? Obviously it depends on specifics so maybe say whether you’re imagining a city centre / suburban / rural school, and whether the state/district is wealthy and whether it’s a high school or whatever. I have some guesses in my head for something like ‘high school teacher in moderately wealthy Chicago suburb’ (I haven’t written the number here because I don’t want…

I taught in a moderately wealthy suburb of Minneapolis. With ten years of experience, my comp was about 50k. While I have heard stories of teachers from prior generations receiving somewhat lavish defined benefit pensions, I don’t believe that has been an option for new teachers in decades. With regard to vacations, we had the school calendar vacations (which is fine), but otherwise I accrued about 8 days of PTO per…

For another anecdote, someone I know teaching private with 0 years experience in the Bay Area / Silicon Valley makes $80k.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#150

Post by germinalphrase »

reducesuffering wrote: post #149
germinalphrase wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I taught in a moderately wealthy suburb of Minneapolis. With ten years of experience, my comp was about 50k. While I have heard stories of teachers from prior generations receiving somewhat lavish defined benefit pensions, I don’t believe that has been an option for new teachers in decades. With regard to vacations, we had the school calendar vacations (which is fine), but otherwise I accrued about 8 days of PTO per…

For another anecdote, someone I know teaching private with 0 years experience in the Bay Area / Silicon Valley makes $80k.

There are huge regional differences.
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