Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators • Hacker News Board

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#131

Post by _a_a_a_ » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 6:37 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #110

pard68 wrote: post #5

Makes sense to me. I attended public school all my life. Everyone I knew more or less had the same out look on formal education, means to an end, can I just get the spark notes, thanks. In college I interacted with a strange life form called a "homeschooler". Almost without exception they were smarter, better read, and had a desire to learn. Educating children seems to be far more than degrees, licenses, and CE credi…

I am a home educating parent. There is no way I could teach a classroom without learning how. Teaching one to one, encouraging and mentoring does not need as much skill. Most of us do it somewhere (e.g. at work). On the other hand I am sure the skill can be learned on the job, but teaching a classroom is still definitely difficult. I also did not spend much time teaching as such: when they were young, lots of learnin…

It may depend. I was mainly educated in the UK. I went to council schools in poor areas, and to an expensive public school, and the difference between pupil behaviour was enormous. In the former they were hard to control (I even remember a kid angrily telling a teacher to fuck off) but in the former when the teacher started speaking everybody piped down and started listening immediately. I remember being so struck by that the first time I saw it. I guess a class of willing students is going to be a whole lot easier to teach than a roomful of ragamuffins who would rather be outside playing footie.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#132

Post by scruple » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 6:40 PM UTC

wharvle wrote: post #107

scruple wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I Googled around a bit. Looks like Connecticut, Maryland, and New York requires them and a small set of other states lock specific licensures behind graduate degrees. I sincerely had no idea this was happening. I have young kids, in California, but we haven't hit kindergarten yet.

States that don’t require higher degrees often have a wall on the pay scale that’s hit early in one’s career, without a graduate degree. What’s weird about the market for teaching master’s degrees, at least (idk about PhDs) is that this generates a ton of demand for them, but it makes no difference how good the program is. Teachers don’t care because they don’t really matter that much for improving teaching skill. Sc…

Thanks for the reply. It's not surprising to hear any of this, honestly, but I am surprised all the same. What a sad state of affairs.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#133

Post by lurking15 » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 6:44 PM UTC

jbellis wrote: post #68

germinalphrase wrote: post #4

As a former high school teacher, I am in favor of reduced requirements to enter the profession; however, I taught in two states that supported these types of on ramps, and they didn’t seem to make a notable impact on applicant numbers (that is, out of the hundreds of educators I worked with over the years, I knew only one who came in via a non-traditional pathway after working in a different field (engineering)). Tha…

I was taking time off in 2022 when my daughter's high school CS teacher quit (to take a job at Microsoft). I volunteered to step in until they could find a qualified replacement. It ended up working out, but it was a pretty big problem to have an unlicensed teacher in the school. They ultimately had me enroll as a substitute who just happened to get assigned to the same classes every day, but they said if I wanted to…

> I could see myself teaching high school in retirement.

My calc & discrete math teacher in HS was a retired guy from bell labs, apparently knew claude shannon. He had made a bunch of money doing that and was just teaching at the HS as a philanthropic service in old age. He wrote & printed the textbooks we used. Practically every other teacher seemed inadequate afterwards. Oddly enough I had a professor in college who was from bell labs too, absolutely brilliant too and taught in the same, in some way brutal, style too.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#134

Post by tekla » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 6:45 PM UTC

KRAKRISMOTT wrote: post #100

fredgrott wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

contrary O....during WI defense hired people that came up with the first IQ test for soldiers...that data shows home schooled people at less IQ than those who went through public schools at the time...actual real data...

The same IQ test that we now call the SATs?

You mean the SATs that you can study for and doesn't attempt to measure base level intelligence?

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#135

Post by iaw » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 6:52 PM UTC

graemep wrote: post #114

iaw wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the only conclusion I've been able to draw from anecdotes about homeschooling (having experienced it myself) is that outcomes are more varied than traditional education, whether there's a bias in that variance is not something anyone can speak to (as of yet). A very smart student has the opportunity to get much farther ahead whereas a poorly crafted education plan and/or an unmotivated student has the potenti…

I has to disagree about the "education plan". I did not plan very much, and my kids have done very well academically. The advantage is you can try stuff and do what works. It is also more motivating. It is possible to mess it up, but schools mess up too. On the whole kids seem to usually do better than comparable kids at school (at least in the UK) and there are studies that back that up. The data is biased by many t…

Maybe 'educational plan' is a misnomer. How about 'strategy and tactics'. Both knowing what the child should eventually learn and adapting so that they learn it.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#136

Post by billdueber » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 6:56 PM UTC

Reminder to everyone commenting here: you are not an average student. The hard part of teaching is not coming up with dynamite lessons for kids who are smart and want to learn and are capable of doing so and aren’t hungry. Anyone can do that. Well, almost anyone.

Way back in the olden times, 5 to 10% of people went to school, and it worked really well for them. Now everyone goes to school, and it works really well for about 5% of us.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#137

Post by Manuel_D » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 6:58 PM UTC

meroes wrote: post #18

mjburgess wrote: post #11

I'm a strong advocate for scrapping all degree requirements to every profession, perhaps even in law (ie., banning most employers from asking). This shifts the burden on to the employer to make a reliable assessment of the applicant. This would have two, imv, favourable effects: 1) a university education would compete on its merits as education with all alternatives; 2) breaking the rent-seeking monopolies universiti…

Tech already does this and it doesn’t seem great? The STEM initiative beginning in the 70s is a national program to get lots of qualified workers into STEM jobs. And yet most STEM graduates don’t have STEM careers (51%). One reason is tech companies hire whoever they want based on their own metrics. Your suggestion just gives large industry more power and leaves people without stable careers or not getting jobs they…

"STEM" is a very nebulous group of fields. Plenty of people study math and become math teachers, financiers, or work in think tanks. Those jobs aren't "STEM careers" but mathematics knowledge is definitely applicable.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#138

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 7:14 PM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #39

I am very close to obtaining an elementary school teaching degree (46 of 49 credits completed), and as of this year I am a full time teacher at a private school (which doesn't have to care whether I officially have a license). My masters program is considered among the best in the state. Unfortunately, I don't have many good things to say about my masters program. The majority of my classes have been interesting but…

This answer made me unreasonably angry. Apparently to become a teacher in New York, you're not allowed to use your brain. "We are not told any information about categories being weighted and therefore we cannot pay special attention to the low safety score." means exactly the following when you're talking about a playground: "Congratulations, all the kids love this creative, high quality playground! Unfortunately they're all at the hospital."

I agree with another commenter, you should name and shame, this is beyond stupid and deserves to be called out as the idiocy it is.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#139

Post by downrightmike » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 7:16 PM UTC

jbellis wrote: post #68

germinalphrase wrote: post #4

As a former high school teacher, I am in favor of reduced requirements to enter the profession; however, I taught in two states that supported these types of on ramps, and they didn’t seem to make a notable impact on applicant numbers (that is, out of the hundreds of educators I worked with over the years, I knew only one who came in via a non-traditional pathway after working in a different field (engineering)). Tha…

I was taking time off in 2022 when my daughter's high school CS teacher quit (to take a job at Microsoft). I volunteered to step in until they could find a qualified replacement. It ended up working out, but it was a pretty big problem to have an unlicensed teacher in the school. They ultimately had me enroll as a substitute who just happened to get assigned to the same classes every day, but they said if I wanted to…

Just work at a community college, you just need a relevant masters degree.

Re: Emergency-hired teachers without degrees as effective as licensed educators

#140

Post by ang_cire » Sat, Jan 20, 2024, 7:21 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #138

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #39

I am very close to obtaining an elementary school teaching degree (46 of 49 credits completed), and as of this year I am a full time teacher at a private school (which doesn't have to care whether I officially have a license). My masters program is considered among the best in the state. Unfortunately, I don't have many good things to say about my masters program. The majority of my classes have been interesting but…

This answer made me unreasonably angry. Apparently to become a teacher in New York, you're not allowed to use your brain. "We are not told any information about categories being weighted and therefore we cannot pay special attention to the low safety score." means exactly the following when you're talking about a playground : "Congratulations, all the kids love this creative, high quality playground! Unfortunately th…

> "Congratulations, all the kids love this creative, high quality playground! Unfortunately they're all at the hospital."

I absolutely love this! xD