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Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

arstechnica.com

31–40 of 276 posts

Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

#31
post #3

All the PO lawyers rewriting witness statements must go to jail. All the prosecutors must go to jail for negligence and malpractice.

Odd that so often here on HN we talk about how prisons don't work, don't deter crime, don't rehabilitate... yet whenever some CEO or high level official is caught in malfeasance, we insist that "sending them to jail" is the only proper response.

Why is it that the same people who call for capital punishment, suddenly loose all their steam if you agree with them and say Boeing executives should be first in line for killing 300 people?

Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd that so often here on HN we talk about how prisons don't work, don't deter crime, don't rehabilitate... yet whenever some CEO or high level official is caught in malfeasance, we insist that "sending them to jail" is the only proper response.

Like an attorney getting a speeding ticket, sometimes you have to rub a high-level official's face in some dirt to humble them and change institutional policy. America has weird leadership fetishes. Captains are supposed to go down with the ship but in times of crisis the President abandons us all to run away on his.

>America has weird leadership fetishes. Captains are supposed to go down with the ship but in times of crisis the President abandons us all to run away on his.

That’s… not that weird when you think about it. The ‘Going down with the ship’ cliche exists because the ship and crew are main responsibility of the Captain. His responsibility and power do not extend Nation-wide. In a time of crises the last thing you need is your head of state throwing their life away, because then you also have to worry about matters of succession on top of the pre-existing crisis.

Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

#33
"I [Paul Patterson, co-CEO of Fujitsu's European division] am surprised that that detail was not included in the witness statements given by Fujitsu staff to the Post Office and I have seen some evidence of editing witness statements by others"

How does this scandal keep getting worse and worse when the only thing to cover up is a contract for some poorly written software?

At this point I'm starting to suspect some underlying malfeasance yet to be discovered.

Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

#34
post #3

All the PO lawyers rewriting witness statements must go to jail. All the prosecutors must go to jail for negligence and malpractice.

Odd that so often here on HN we talk about how prisons don't work, don't deter crime, don't rehabilitate... yet whenever some CEO or high level official is caught in malfeasance, we insist that "sending them to jail" is the only proper response.

Over time, my thoughts on prison have evolved. I no longer consider their purpose to be punishment, but instead simply segregating people from society who refuse to follow the rules of society. The segregation is enough punishment itself, more punishment doesn't need to be heaped on.

Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Odd that so often here on HN we talk about how prisons don't work, don't deter crime, don't rehabilitate... yet whenever some CEO or high level official is caught in malfeasance, we insist that "sending them to jail" is the only proper response.

i'd posit that you're jumping to a conclusion. we've never actually tried prosecuting/convicting/incarcerating CEOs or other high level officials, so we don't know what the deterrent on that would actually be. we need to run the experiments through to the end to see.

Ken Lay of Enron.

Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

#37
post #18

Bugs are inevitable. The real issue is with the post office management that prosecuted people they knew there was a good chance were innocent, withheld evidence, falsified evidence, and harassed journalists investigating. What really bothers me is that the CEO of the Organisation at the time was also a Christian priest/deacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Vennells > witness statements from Fujitsu staff due to…

> What really bothers me is that the CEO of the Organisation at the time was also a Christian priest/deacon lol, in my experience... well, let me not finish that sentence

As a Christian, I have learned to be in my guard when business partners tell me about their Christianity.

Or any other way of signaling their self-proported ethics.

Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

#38
post #13

Bugs are inevitable. The real issue is with the post office management that prosecuted people they knew there was a good chance were innocent, withheld evidence, falsified evidence, and harassed journalists investigating. What really bothers me is that the CEO of the Organisation at the time was also a Christian priest/deacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Vennells > witness statements from Fujitsu staff due to…

I have generally found that there's not that much relation between people's stated beliefs and their actual every-day behaviour. By and large, I do think their beliefs are genuine and heart-felt, and that they're not faking them. It's just that it doesn't really influence their daily behaviour all that much. Generally people are motivated by the incentives of the moment, emotion of the moment, and that kind of thing.…

Related, started realizing that "being a principled person" doesn't really mean "having (stated) principles", it means belief that you can (and should) have principles that you're trying to apply consistently and continuously.

Lots of people have principles. Not so many people are principled.

Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

#39
post #3

All the PO lawyers rewriting witness statements must go to jail. All the prosecutors must go to jail for negligence and malpractice.

Odd that so often here on HN we talk about how prisons don't work, don't deter crime, don't rehabilitate... yet whenever some CEO or high level official is caught in malfeasance, we insist that "sending them to jail" is the only proper response.

Some users say those things, but they may be different users than the ones saying CEOs (etc.) should go to jail when they commit crimes. And/or it could be that, despite the idea that prisons don't work, if you're going to punish one set of "criminals" then we ought to apply the penalties evenly... especially since the crimes committed by CEOs/HLOs are often more harmful overall.

Ironically, the threat of prison might be much more effective if white collar types expected to be punished more regularly than they are. Economically, people who wind up incarcerated are often[1] on the low end of the income scale. That is, people who may feel they have little to lose by committing crimes because their standard of living isn't great to begin with. [2]

If these CEOs/HLOs felt there was a good chance they'd end up not only ruining their career but actually going to jail ... they might feel they have too much to lose to commit the crimes in the first place.

[1] https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/income.html [2] I'm not suggesting that the standard of living in prison is comparable to being free, even if you are actually dirt poor. But if you've been broke or poor, and you have no expectation of that changing, you might understand why someone might take risks.

Re: Fujitsu bugs that sent innocent people to prison were known "from the start"

#40

Bugs are inevitable. The real issue is with the post office management that prosecuted people they knew there was a good chance were innocent, withheld evidence, falsified evidence, and harassed journalists investigating. What really bothers me is that the CEO of the Organisation at the time was also a Christian priest/deacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Vennells > witness statements from Fujitsu staff due to…

> What really bothers me is that the CEO of the Organisation at the time was also a Christian priest/deacon

At the risk of making a No True Scotsman argument, it's anyone's guess as to whether or not she truly is a Christian.

The only conclusion I can really draw from this is that she apparently acted in a way that's not consistent with Christian ideals.

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