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Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

wsj.com

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Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#91

Post by paxys »

massysett wrote: post #12

"They recognized that getting a new card is one of the rare times you must actively renew your automatically renewing subscriptions, since you have to update the payment information on file with those companies." This isn't true: I've had subscriptions roll over to the new credit card number - and not just for a month or two. Apparently the bank will continue to process them (I'd rather they didn't.)

That happens in case an existing card renews (or is replaced after getting lost etc.) If you get a net new card then retailers aren't getting that info.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#92

Post by toomuchtodo »

bombcar wrote: post #84
wolverine876 wrote: post #64

The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. This particular behavior is little better than taking money and simply refusing to provide service. Don't tell me it's unintentional - you know what's happening and…

The way I see it, if they can register if you're using it, then after a year of disuse (or getting close to it) they should send a "we will cancel this for you" type notices. If it's business to business, that's more on both sides.

Interested in filing public comments on this if the FTC asks for them?

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#93

Post by pxeboot »

massysett wrote: post #12

"They recognized that getting a new card is one of the rare times you must actively renew your automatically renewing subscriptions, since you have to update the payment information on file with those companies." This isn't true: I've had subscriptions roll over to the new credit card number - and not just for a month or two. Apparently the bank will continue to process them (I'd rather they didn't.)

Visa calls this "Visa Account Updater (VAU)" [1]. MC and AMEX have something similar.

[1] https://developer.visa.com/capabilities/vau/overview

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#94

Post by weinzierl »

The irony is that Americans are probably spending a lot because they forgot to cancel their WSJ subscription;-)

When I canceled mine a couple of years ago I think it could only be done by phone, which already is a hurdle. To be fair to WSJ, it was smooth sailing from there and they did not bother me or try to trick me to renew it, in or after the phone call.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#95

Post by NoZebra120vClip »

el_benhameen wrote: post #48
b112 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bank will "helpfully" tell retail partners the new expiry date, and 3 digit code. It's to help you, supposedly.

I get the concern. At the same time, when my card was stolen last year, it was helpful to not have to update my billing info on 8,000 different vendor websites or risk having an account cancelled. I think tying a credit card to an account number versus an account as an entity is becoming somewhat antiquated.

That's one of the reasons I enjoy using PayPal and Google Pay. Because my payment card details simply aren't on file with any vendors anymore. And I get a dashboard full of recurring payments where I can unilaterally cut anyone off. And I can modify which payment card they're using for each.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#96

Post by thriftwy »

wolverine876 wrote: post #64

The blame falls also on businesses which take money for services they don't deliver. They often know, and otherwise often could know, when subscribers are not using the service. If you're a business, you should earn your revenue, otherwise you are frauds. This particular behavior is little better than taking money and simply refusing to provide service. Don't tell me it's unintentional - you know what's happening and…

I believe this is implemented in Russia: I did not check that but when I sign up for some streaming service, after some time they start begging me to watch something and then stop charging me. I guess they may only charge on the months when I've showed up. They may resume it immediately when I come back, though.

Myself would like to know how that works in detail.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#97

Post by criddell »

guntars wrote: post #83
criddell wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple Card does this: https://www.idownloadblog.com/2019/04/01/apple-card-virtual-... It’s not unique to Apple though. I think it’s this standard from EMVCo https://www.emvco.com/emv-technologies/payment-tokenisation/

Apple lets you replace your card number with a new one, but it's not quite the same as creating single-use virtual numbers for sketchy businesses.

The EMVCo link is actually more interesting. The payment tokenization scheme means that the merchant never gets your card number (the PAN), they get a token.

> EMV Payment Tokenisation enhances transaction security by removing the most valuable data to a fraudster within a transaction, the primary account number (PAN), and replacing it with a unique alternative value, a payment token.

> This reduces the value of payments information stolen in the event of a data compromise, as a payment token should not be able to be used beyond the environment in which it was intended. Payment tokens support both face-to-face (F2F) and remote payment transactions.

Basically, if Amazon leaks my credit card data, thieves can’t use it because the number is associated with my Amazon account only. That one token can be cancelled and the next time I buy something a new one is issued and I don’t have to replace my credit card just because one merchant leaked my info.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#98

Post by [deleted] »

foobarian wrote: post #66
crazygringo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not. It was easy to look at statements when they arrived by mail. But with paperless billing, you've got to conscientiously log into your credit card site each month. If you have four cards, that's four logins. Who's going to do that? Not many. The only reason I review my transactions it's because it's easy through an aggregator like Monarch (was using Mint before it shut down). And the only reason I do th…

Yes and then you log in and see: Apple $4.99 Apple $1.99 Apple $14.99 Apple $4.99 Apple $2.99 Apple $9.99 good luck!

[deleted]

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#99

Post by SeanAnderson »

This sort of thing exists in many areas, not just subscriptions.

Starbucks has over $1.5B (something like 17% of its free cash, don't quote me though) in the form of spare change lingering on Starbucks Cards. It fundamentally affects their financials, but is also perceived as just spare change slipping into the couch.

Re: Americans are spending billions on stuff they forget to cancel

#100

Post by bcrosby95 »

chucksta wrote: post #60
el_benhameen wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the concern. At the same time, when my card was stolen last year, it was helpful to not have to update my billing info on 8,000 different vendor websites or risk having an account cancelled. I think tying a credit card to an account number versus an account as an entity is becoming somewhat antiquated.

It goes both ways, a couple years ago I had to deal with a scammer who the bank kept "helping" with each new card they issued me. It happened like 5 times before it stopped, nothing I could do.

You issue a chargeback. It's been a while since I've worked on these systems, but IIRC back in the day you would get a refund and they would be penalized an extra $25 or so on top of it. If they get too many they can loose their merchant account.

We always made cancels easy in our system, and if someone issued a chargeback we would ban their email from signing up again.

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