"Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem • Hacker News Board

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#371

Post by gruseom » Sat, Apr 28, 2012, 6:03 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #304

egillie wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you remember the name of one of the books? I found some evidence of the opposite happening to attract men to the profession in OK, but I can easily believe that what you described happened in other states. And it's a pretty infuriating idea... To quote Steinem: “there are very few jobs that actually require a penis or a vagina, and all the other jobs should be open to both sexes.

I found one cite from Gatto, which is probably where I heard it: "Between 1840 and 1860, male schoolteachers were cleansed from the Massachusetts system and replaced by women. A variety of methods was used, including the novel one of paying women slightly more than men in order to bring shame into play in chasing men out of the business. Again, the move was part of a well-conceived strategy: "Experience teaches that…

Google Books picks up the source for the quote, at least.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=7irAXGiBBoQC&lpg=RA1-PA8...

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#372

Post by aswanson » Sun, Apr 29, 2012, 1:52 AM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #370

rada wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with brain chemistry and other "hard facts" is that they are always cherry-picked to justify one's position post factum. Example: where I grew up, girls were considered to be better at technical disciplines because in class, girls sit still and pay attention while boys clown around and pick fights. On a larger note, please don't add to the fire saying that women are less interested in any kind of intellec…

"The problem with brain chemistry and other "hard facts" is that they are always cherry-picked to justify one's position post factum" And therefore, brain chemistry plays no role whatsoever? "On a larger note, please don't add to the fire saying that women are less interested in any kind of intellectual pursuits" Why not, if it is true? Is it wrong to say that men are less interested in knitting than women? I'd like…

Brain chemistry most likely plays some type of role, but if you are not in a position to quantify and explain to what degree and under what circumstance in a given situation, phrases like that lend themselves to lazy, armchair-scientist type sentiment that do nothing to raise the level of conversation.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#373

Post by foobie » Sun, Apr 29, 2012, 1:53 AM UTC

xal wrote: post #82

dsr_ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would dare to guess that women are underrepresented among developers PRECISELY because of this culture and the underlying assumptions and attitudes. Gender is irrelevant to logical analysis, which is the foundation of programming. If you don't have parity in your pool of candidates, there's a cause, and it's probably social. Nursing and teaching used to be men's work. Women weren't thought to be capable of it. Too…

I think that's debatable based on geography. You point to nurses and teaching being precedents but that was only true in certain geographies. The low interest in of women in programming is a global phenomenon. It's important that we discuss the actual cause here if we want any hope in solving this. Let me throw out another one that I find has less weaknesses then the usual arguments: There is a tremendous lack of fem…

"The low interest in of women in programming is a global phenomenon." Huh. Source? according to this: http://www.frauen.inf.ethz.ch/stats/international_stat_fraue... "there is a wide range in participation in computing by women.... it is difficult to do a direct comparison between countries. ... participation is between 10% and 40% in most countries and courses, with a wide spread in this range. There are some countries and courses where women's participation is below 10%, some with participation above 40%, and a few where women are in the majority." ( I believe in Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand, women are in the majority )

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#374

Post by kanchax » Tue, May 01, 2012, 7:28 PM UTC

What about women who feel empowered by being admired? Who sincerely are much more numerous than those shouting few defaming a really common thing, appreciating women. Yes, there are women who feel badly when they are not admired for their beauty. That said,

Why should we care about those guys losing 50% (or not) potential employees. The only reason I see is those holier-than-thou people just want to impose their view on you. If those views are better the guys will choose them. With our current social decorum, I guess they will. I love freedom of speech.

I personally would have not apologized in the position of Path but I would also not have done what they did in the first place. Treating women that way is not the right way get to them in my circles.

I really don't see where the complaint on Geeklist came from. What about all those music clips/GoDaddy commercial?

It's such a big fuss to me because I read it on HN. I got to stop reading these decorum stories and be more productive.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#375

Post by frankwiles » Wed, May 02, 2012, 8:01 PM UTC

batista wrote: post #116

frankwiles wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A guy made some jokes anybody would fine perfectly acceptable" I don't find those jokes "perfectly acceptable", not even close.

Yes, I can see how a joking mention that "I secured a position in a company buy sending the cofounders nude pictures" can be considered controversial and unacceptable... in rural Utah, that is. Comedians, from Lenny Bruce to Carlin have used far more controversial stuff --are we, tech people as a group more backwards than the 60's and 70's people that persecuted them? (That he wasn't a comedian is not a reason to not…

Sorry didn't see this got a reply until now. I hear what you're saying and being a big Carlin fan I agree that "any subject" can be made funny, it's the intentions behind the words, etc.

Perhaps it's a double standard on my part, but the sexism in our industry is poisonous to our future and I think we would all be better off if we considered these topics to simply be off limits.

As for PEP712, while I wouldn't present it at a conference, I would be ok with whatever flack I received due to using the first two letters of a profane word.

However, I would also expect to be spit roasted online and hopefully in person if the proposal was to pop up a nude porn pic if all of the tests passed.