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EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

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Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#121

Post by kybernetyk »

some-username wrote: post #31
kybernetyk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as an average joe on the consumer end I don't care about transaction costs. at least here in germany that's the vendor's problem.

Won't the vendors just design their prices in a way that it's economically feasible for them - they just include the transaction costs in the price?

yes, but they're not allowed to charge different prices depending on payment method. so they may factor those costs in - but everyone pays them. doesn't matter if they're paying cash or visa. so as a consumer I don't care about taler's lower transaction costs because I still have to pay the full price. so why should I switch? I'm happy with my visa on my apple watch.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#122

Post by actionfromafar »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #88
actionfromafar wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do though. I have been to several who refuse cards for payments below a certain (pretty low) amount.

Minimum amount for card payments , indeed because of fees, is not the same as refusing card payments altogether like the person I replied to wrote. Cash only is not really about card fees...

But if you only sell low value items, it may not be worth it, especially if you won’t loose many customers because most customers have cash at hand.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#123

Post by darkwater »

pjc50 wrote: post #106
entropyie wrote: post #33

If I could rig my browser to pay 1 cent for every newspaper article I read, I would happily do so. The biggest issue with paying for news is that you are reduced to a small handful of sources. I would like to read a couple of articles from a hundred sources, not a hundred articles from one source. Not sure this platform solves the problem, but it would be a game changer if it did.

My standard reply to this: https://github.com/pjc50/misc-personal.github.io/blob/master... > If I could rig my browser to pay 1 cent for every newspaper article I read Define "read". And "article". Should you get charged for every link preview you scroll past on Twitter? (see lawsuits! the publishers think you should, or at least that this is copyright infringement) Can I build a page with one "article" plus one thou…

> Can I build a page with one "article" plus one thousand hidden iframes each of which also contains a one-cent "article"?

It should be up to your user-agent (aka the browser) to implement your decision and protect you from scammers, just like it happens in the rest of scenarios.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#124

Post by postepowanieadm »

summm wrote: post #104
postepowanieadm wrote: post #94

Another one? Europe already has multiple private and secure online payments: for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blik

How is that one private? It is coupled to your bank account so your purchases can be nicely tracked, and to add insult, you also need to use your bank's crappy online banking app

Do you really suppose anyone in the EU will allow you to maka any payments that are completely anonymous/untraceable? I do trust my bank, if I wouldn't trust them I would find another one. I don't see what problem taler is supposed to solve.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#125

Post by pjc50 »

littlestymaar wrote: post #116
pjc50 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like a lot of conspiracy theory, there's a core of truth. All you have to do is ask the question "is this system going to be allowed to be used for crime on a huge scale", receive the obvious answer "no", and infer that there will be some control built into the system. Where it leaps into conspiracy is the question of when and whom this will be used against. But it's fairly obvious that measures will be taken against…

This has nothing to do with what GP invented (amount control and expiration date set by central banks). > But it's fairly obvious that measures will be taken against drug sellers, sex workers, banned political parties and so on. Yeah, of course like governments already do with cash! There's a big difference between saying “governments are going to police things” (which is always true, that's their purpose in fact) an…

The argument is that, if the money is just a database, the police will get it policed, or the bank will police it themselves, in an extra-legal way of just deleting or freezing accounts on request.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#126

Post by summm »

postepowanieadm wrote: post #124
summm wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that one private? It is coupled to your bank account so your purchases can be nicely tracked, and to add insult, you also need to use your bank's crappy online banking app

Do you really suppose anyone in the EU will allow you to maka any payments that are completely anonymous/untraceable? I do trust my bank, if I wouldn't trust them I would find another one. I don't see what problem taler is supposed to solve.

Money streams would not be completely anonymous. Only the end user would be anonymous. And, the competition are not necessarily only banks, but shady, non-EU middlemen such as Visa, MasterCard, PayPal etc. where it is well-known that they sell your data wherever.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#127

Post by mytailorisrich »

actionfromafar wrote: post #122
mytailorisrich wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimum amount for card payments , indeed because of fees, is not the same as refusing card payments altogether like the person I replied to wrote. Cash only is not really about card fees...

But if you only sell low value items, it may not be worth it, especially if you won’t loose many customers because most customers have cash at hand.

Let's spell it out, then: Cash only is about tax, not card fees.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#128

Post by toyg »

1116574 wrote: post #96
toyg wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That may make it a politically acceptable substitute for cash. I think you misspelled un acceptable. Anonymous donations are a massive source of corruption, which is why they tend to be capped by law (and even then, I'm sure a lot of bad people manage to get around it). Political money needs total transparency. (Unless you meant "more acceptable to the general public for average transactions"; in which case I agree…

It is much better for govt as well. Instead of having untracked cash flows not paying taxes, now you can ensure taxes are paid (in EU seller is responsible for paying taxes). So your local govt can sell you this new (old) system as being just like cash, decentralised, anonymous, with no banking institutions at play, while having a closer watch on increasingly convoluted tax codes. As for donations, it's still good. I…

> Instead of having untracked cash flows not paying taxes

Blockchain payments are tracked, so are bank movements; that's not the problem. The problem with blockchain solutions (well, one of many) is that they're pseudonymous, so authorities have to work to demonstrate that account X is linked to person A. Compare with the regular banking system, where every account must have a real identity attached: from the government's perspective, banks are so much better, and they already work (through Visa/MasterCard/Amex). Governments have absolutely no incentive to accept or push an anonymous digital currency. None whatsoever. The more anonymous a currency is (and this one is a bit more anonymous than blockchains), the worse it looks from the perspective of the state.

Re: EU NGI TALER will bring private and secure online payments to the Eurozone

#129

Post by mrd3v0 »

orwin wrote: post #112
TruthWillHurt wrote: post #53

"..funded as pilot under the Next Generation Internet (NGI) initiative within the European Commission.." pilot + next gen + initiative + european commission . This combination of terms == no action.

The last time I participated in a project with all those terms (not 'next gen, it was' future', but the idea is the same), it gave birth to the legislation that forces manufacturers to keep providing spare parts 10 years after product EOL, and to provide plans for independants builders after that. Long winded way of saying 'you're wrong'.

Not to mention the NGI is not a bunch of words, they have been funding many actionable projects including pretty much all the Fediverse.
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