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The Rust project has a burnout problem

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Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#211

Post by shrimp_emoji »

surajrmal wrote: post #180
silon42 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some might think C++ will take years (few years I was hoping 2025, but seems unlikely now) to catch up to Rust in some important ways.

C++ is losing momentum as larger organizations lose interest in investing in it. Features standardized in c++20 are still not available in the most popular compilers, let alone features in c++23. The future is looking bleak. Rust is a great alternative for greenfield projects but we really need a new kotlin-esque innovation to keep c++ alive imo.

> Features standardized in c++20 are still not available in the most popular compilers

"A few years" was also the feature support cadence of '17 through '11 features.

And, before that, the 3-year release cycle wasn't a thing yet.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#212

Post by nickitolas »

layer8 wrote: post #168
aftbit wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow a lot of people have very strong feelings about this. Parent comment is fine but some of the replies are quite out there, calling this "arrogant" and "dumb". Let me provide my own opinion. IMO content over style. Nobody owes you adherence to a particular set of rules, nor do they owe you their thoughts at all. If the writer's style is a bridge too far for you, kindly just close the tab, don't complain about it. C…

> If the writer's style is a bridge too far for you, kindly just close the tab, don't complain about it. I sure hope we are allowed to criticize writers’ styles.

I mean ... https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> Please don't complain about tangential annoyances—e.g. article or website formats, name collisions, or back-button breakage. They're too common to be interesting.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#213

Post by tredre3 »

aftbit wrote: post #156
rkangel wrote: post #10

Do other people react as strongly as I did to the lack of capitalisation at the start of sentences? The post is generally "well" written with good grammar and punctuation so I find it strange - it feels like a style choice. But the style choice just instinctively makes part of my brain feel like it's written by a child.

Wow a lot of people have very strong feelings about this. Parent comment is fine but some of the replies are quite out there, calling this "arrogant" and "dumb". Let me provide my own opinion. IMO content over style. Nobody owes you adherence to a particular set of rules, nor do they owe you their thoughts at all. If the writer's style is a bridge too far for you, kindly just close the tab, don't complain about it. C…

> Nobody owes you adherence to a particular set of rules, nor do they owe you their thoughts at all.

What the hell? English has rules. If those rules aren't followed, it makes communication needlessly more difficult.

This isn't just a typo we're talking about. This is someone making a deliberate choice to be harder to understand because they see it as quirky and cool.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#214

Post by workingjubilee »

sph wrote: post #44
markphip wrote: post #3

This is a good description of what life is like working on almost any significant open source project. The only thing not included was the comments from overly entitled users that saps whatever morale and energy you have left. Probably best he did not include that though as that is what all discussion would be about. I am not sure what to do about the burnout problem. The way he described it is very on point though.…

> This is a good description of what life is like working on almost any significant open source project. Open contributions project. An open source project does not necessarily have to accept random contributions, issues or hatemail from the general public. [1] They just need to make the source available with a permissive licence, period. I believe that Linux with its idiosyncrasies in its communication model (mailin…

This is a frankly ridiculous assertion given LKML's notoriously toxic history. Part of the problem is that overly-entitled maintainers can be as equally dangerous to actual progress in the project by stonewalling useful code on invented reasons that have never been applied to previous PRs and that the maintainer does not apply to their own commits.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#216

Post by sph »

delfinom wrote: post #183
marcosdumay wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's a lot of variation and may explain why so many conversations about open source sound like people are talking past each other Most of the discussion is people suffering through GitHub-style social networks. I don't see a lot of people talking through each other, as much as I see people assuming this is the way, and others pointing out it's just one option. At some point we have to acknowledge that GitHub is a…

GitHub is absolutely toxic which is why we develop on GitLab instead. The reduction in the slowly creeping "social features" and non-existence of drive-by activism is great.

Gitlab's approach to the problem is making every UI redesign even worse than the one before, so people have to click through 3 menus just to file an issue.

The latest redesign is egregious to say the least.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#217

Post by ninkendo »

andrewaylett wrote: post #174
ninkendo wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I know what engagement is , but I’m wondering why you think Microsoft benefits from me being engaged with GitHub?

Because the known system effect means that the more arbitrary developers engage with them, the more likely it is that at least some of them will drive corporate adoption and, by extension, sales. Tailscale put it well: https://tailscale.com/blog/free-plan > increased word-of-mouth from free plans sells the more valuable corporate plans

Why is it a given that GitHub slowing me down by making me engaged with the site more, will make me spread more word of mouth/etc? Everyone in this thread is just assuming a link here, but I don’t see it at all.

GH annoys the shit of me by making me click more shit to get my job done, it “increases engagement”, and then… what exactly? My annoyance is supposed to lead to me… thinking about GitHub more? And thus I’ll pressure my org to use it?

This makes no sense. I hate engagement-based metrics as much as the next person but I’m not sure MS is as brain dead as to intentionally make the UX worse, to make engagement higher, and assuming that will somehow increase sales. There’s no link here.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#218

Post by tredre3 »

jihiggins wrote: post #201
Hirrolot wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Downvoted your comment because of spelling. Consider learning some English grammar.

^ exactly the type of person i was talking about. how is this considered anything other than troll behaviour? also, there are no spelling mistakes in my comment. perhaps consider learning about how words are spelled in british english vs american english? :)

> how is this considered anything other than troll behaviour?

You're exactly right, deliberately not using capitalization is akin to trolling.

Trolling is fun for the troll but it isn't that popular on HN unfortunately.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#219

Post by throwawaylolx »

_aaed wrote: post #94
throwawaylolx wrote: post #85

[flagged]

I assume you say that be cause they don't capitalise the first letter of a sentence, which is fine since it's an informal blog post. This isn't a journal publication

Do you think that the difference between journal publications and blog posts are the use of capitalisation?

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#220

Post by pas »

jynelson wrote: post #32
gtirloni wrote: post #7

> new contributors make PRs. they make silly simple mistakes due to lack of experience; you point them out and they get fixed. this can be fun, for a time. what it’s teaching you is that you personally are responsible for catching mistakes. Every team I've worked with that was feeling exhausted about code contributions actually needed to focus on better documenting guidelines but most importantly, improve CI. Catchin…

rust's CI is quite extensive actually; there's a talk on it here: https://www.pietroalbini.org/blog/shipping-a-compiler-every-... CI is good. more tests are good. but there's a limit to how much they can catch. here is an example: there is an internal type checking API called [`resolve_vars_if_possible`]( https://doc.rust-lang.org/nightly/nightly-rustc/rustc_infer/... ). this needs to be called on the output of almos…

hm, is it possible to ... add these trivial-by-look-but-hard-to-script things to a checklist as an auto-comment to PRs? is there a list of these?

anyway, thanks for writing this post, and for featuring that awesome message/art/logo/thing at the end \m/

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