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The Rust project has a burnout problem

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Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#171

Post by Rudism »

aftbit wrote: post #156
rkangel wrote: post #10

Do other people react as strongly as I did to the lack of capitalisation at the start of sentences? The post is generally "well" written with good grammar and punctuation so I find it strange - it feels like a style choice. But the style choice just instinctively makes part of my brain feel like it's written by a child.

Wow a lot of people have very strong feelings about this. Parent comment is fine but some of the replies are quite out there, calling this "arrogant" and "dumb". Let me provide my own opinion. IMO content over style. Nobody owes you adherence to a particular set of rules, nor do they owe you their thoughts at all. If the writer's style is a bridge too far for you, kindly just close the tab, don't complain about it. C…

I think that while authors are obviously free to make whatever stylistic choices they want, it's also valid for readers to point it out when those choices are so distracting that it interferes with the intended message of the writing (as long as it's done civilly). It reminds me of another recent-ish article that was posted to HN that used uncommon ligatures looping between certain letters, where a large part of that discussion was centered around how distracting that was.

As an author, if you notice that your style choices are generating more interest and discussion than the actual content of your writing, it's probably worth considering whether the reasons that led you to those choices are really worth taking away from the messages you're trying to convey. Seeing as how the author of this post chimed in here to call their use of lowercase an "asshole filter," I suppose it's clear where they stand on that question.

I can see a future where we'll have browser extensions that use generative AI to "correct" style and grammar of articles to match the preferences of the reader, at which point stylistic choices may cease to matter as much.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#172

Post by alwaysbeconsing »

ninkendo wrote: post #152
berkes wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engagement isn't just driving ads. It's driving engagement: The "toothbrush"-factor we called that in app-development: do you have an app that people pick up like their toothbrush: without much thought, several times a day? Engagement means people have you in their workflow, on their radar. I would love it if Github is something that I don't have to think of, that is invisible and out of my mind. I'd love it if it's…

I think I know what engagement is , but I’m wondering why you think Microsoft benefits from me being engaged with GitHub?

It means they keep position as dominant Git forge, mindshare: people are most familiar with them, then think of them first for Enterprise contracts, are interested in other paid product/feature (Copilot e.g.).

Side benefit to overwhelming mindshare many people expect/require the other forge to have the Github feature: being different counts as negative. This reinforces.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#173

Post by vouaobrasil »

surajrmal wrote: post #169
vouaobrasil wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I don't think it is natural to sit in the same role for more than a few years. And that's not just the primary tasks of the job -- the same people, the same administration, the same bureaucracy. I do feel that virtually no jobs will allow you to grow as a person and enjoy life. Here, by "job" I mean the traditional kind at a corporation or medium-sized organization. After seven years of working in such or…

If you like the people you work with, why change things? I've been on the same team for 6 years and my org has had minimal churn in that time period. It's not quite like a second family (that would leave me too heartbroken if I ended up moving on), but I don't really think I'll have an easy time finding another group I work so well with, so I don't feel motivated to find another opportunity. I used to move around a l…

A good counterpoint. Not many people get it but you found something good. That's very nice.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#174

Post by andrewaylett »

ninkendo wrote: post #152
berkes wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engagement isn't just driving ads. It's driving engagement: The "toothbrush"-factor we called that in app-development: do you have an app that people pick up like their toothbrush: without much thought, several times a day? Engagement means people have you in their workflow, on their radar. I would love it if Github is something that I don't have to think of, that is invisible and out of my mind. I'd love it if it's…

I think I know what engagement is , but I’m wondering why you think Microsoft benefits from me being engaged with GitHub?

Because the known system effect means that the more arbitrary developers engage with them, the more likely it is that at least some of them will drive corporate adoption and, by extension, sales.

Tailscale put it well: https://tailscale.com/blog/free-plan

> increased word-of-mouth from free plans sells the more valuable corporate plans

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#175

Post by EmilyHughes »

jynelson wrote: post #20
EmilyHughes wrote: post #11

If you don't get paid to do something it's not fun, how about you just stop doing it?

it's not that simple. people form an emotional attachment to the work; they feel obligated to keep doing it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39027226

That might be, but then don't wonder if people look at you strange if you tell them you got burnout from a job where you never met any colleagues and didn't get paid either.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#177

Post by pierotofy »

A few guidelines to avoid maintainer's burnout:

* Do not allow questions on GitHub issues, it's a poor place for conversations. I find Discourse or some other forum (or mailing list) a better place to do that, which allows community participation (and you can automate moderation using something like https://github.com/pierotofy/issuewhiz)

* People owe you nothing, just as you owe them nothing; you don't have to fix an issue or merge a pull request because somebody opened one.

* Try review and merge contributions, but on your own timeframe. If people have urgency, kindly invite them to get a paid support agreement.

* Don't engage in quarrels; you always have the option to ignore or ban the offenders.

* Document FAQs.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#178

Post by cangeroo »

I'm excited for the Rust project. But to add a superficial observation: It seems that the Rust project is not very diverse. Could that contribute to culture problems?

It seems to have a disproportionately high, relatively to society, percentage of white, male, strongly LGBT-oriented personalities, who usually have a female Japanese cartoon character, or maybe a furry, as their profile picture on GitHub.

Which is fine, whatever, but I worry that it suffers from groupthink and excludes different minds. Maybe it's hostile to plain people that just want to focus on programming? I suspect that people like Torvalds wouldn't survive long, and that's a shame.

And if you want to be really critical: Maybe the leadership is happy that specific people are leaving? Maybe burnout is a tool? Maybe it's a way of social control and censorship?

I personally hope that Rust finds more mainstream support and funding, because I'd love to work full-time in Rust for many years to come.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#179

Post by delfinom »

twp wrote: post #120
ninkendo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a baffling decision for GitHub to make any product decisions based on engagement. They don’t even serve ads, what benefit do they have to an engaged user?

For an example of GitHub enraging its users and ignoring all feedback see the feedback on the new feed: https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/13130 https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/65343 The feedback is overwhelmingly negative, and has severely disrupted many people's workflow, but GitHub doesn't even acknowledge the problem.

It's enshittification. The same way LinkedIn is being turned into ...generic social media, GitHub is slowly being eaten away into serving some executive's delusions.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#180

Post by surajrmal »

silon42 wrote: post #112
twen_ty wrote: post #29

This is why I think that C++ will be around in the next 50 years but Rust? I can't tell.

Some might think C++ will take years (few years I was hoping 2025, but seems unlikely now) to catch up to Rust in some important ways.

C++ is losing momentum as larger organizations lose interest in investing in it. Features standardized in c++20 are still not available in the most popular compilers, let alone features in c++23. The future is looking bleak.

Rust is a great alternative for greenfield projects but we really need a new kotlin-esque innovation to keep c++ alive imo.

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