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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#831

Post by gustavus »

m_0x wrote: post #825
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

> All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer. Steal? What you want the App store to be free and become the Android Play Store which is utter garbage and hostile against small and mid developers?

You know I hear this argument a lot, but had a revelation recently. Everything people are saying about apps and the app store could apply equally well to web browsers and webpages. After all there are plenty of malicious webpages out there that can do bad things, but we decided that it is fine, that's a risk we as society are willing to take. The alternative is to allow large organizations like the state and corporations to tell us what we can and can't do with devices we own and what we can or can't look at.

In conclusion "Information wants to be free."

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#832

Post by HDThoreaun »

nodamage wrote: post #444
choppaface wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But use of said IP is required because Apple forbids side-loading. Therefore Apple App store is a monopoly. So hopefully the court result will in the end help get the Apple App store shut down / opened up.

> Therefore Apple App store is a monopoly. Not under US law according to the very court case being discussed. Why are people still making this claim when the judge literally concluded otherwise and then a panel of appeals court judges confirmed her ruling?

Because the case shows that the law needs to be updated, not that the app store isnt a monopoly.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#833

Post by squigglydonut »

ativzzz wrote: post #763
squigglydonut wrote: post #375

I'm an app designer and was able to get my PWA to look very native. This is my way to avoid the app store fees which are absolutely ridiculous. Apps take up too much storage space anyways.

Do you do IAP? Stripe or paypal is just slightly more inconvenient than Apple pay. Does not being in an app store hurt your marketability at all?

Oh in app purchasing. No my product is entirely dependent on the user purchasing a physical product. There's no IAP. Possibly in the future if users want something that is an upsell then I could see that happening. But I would have to hear it from users and by that point they would already be in my app-store-less ecosystem

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#834

Post by jwagenet »

barbariangrunge wrote: post #829
AlwaysRock wrote: post #817

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldnt defend 30% specifically but surely they should get some cut or share. What is the right number? 1%? 50%? I don't know. > All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer. Kind of an odd take. They take a cut because they provide a service. They are not stealing. I guess lump me in with the defending apple cro…

Does windows deserve 30%? what about your isp? Or your motherboard manufacturer? What about nvidia? Should every single company providing you software or hardware take a cut, or only apple? We should own our own computers

Pretty much every middleman or service provider in every industry takes a cut, whether by charging you more than they paid or a fee for their service. For some reason people think software is uniquely exempt from this transaction. Nvidia and your motherboard manufacturer already charged you for the product they provided and you also paid for the fee Dell or Newegg charged on top. Your isp is charging you a fee for uninterrupted service. Apple is charging developers for hosting apps and developing tooling.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#836

Post by linuxhansl »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #817
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

I wouldnt defend 30% specifically but surely they should get some cut or share. What is the right number? 1%? 50%? I don't know. > All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer. Kind of an odd take. They take a cut because they provide a service. They are not stealing. I guess lump me in with the defending apple cro…

Seems to me the range of what a credit card charges would seem sensible. I.e. 3-7%.

Alternatively charge 30% but be forced to allow side-installing Apps. That way developers can decide if they want the convenience and reach of the AppStore or not.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#837

Post by thefounder »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #817
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

I wouldnt defend 30% specifically but surely they should get some cut or share. What is the right number? 1%? 50%? I don't know. > All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer. Kind of an odd take. They take a cut because they provide a service. They are not stealing. I guess lump me in with the defending apple cro…

They should as much as Mozilla gets for the online transactions carried out on its browser.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#838

Post by HDThoreaun »

mattdesl wrote: post #656

Can’t a developer just add a message to their website to circumvent this link tax? “Open this again in any regular browser to receive a 27% discount.” I don’t see anything that prohibits this: https://developer.apple.com/support/storekit-external-entitl... Apple cannot (or, per antitrust law, should not) tell a developer how to design and sell their merchandise in their web based storefronts .

I think if what youre selling is just app based content apple could sue and force an audit. Like if the product is just a subscription to the mobile app they could claim that all revenue received from that is subject to the fee. But if youre selling a more general subscription that can be used on different platforms I think this would work.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#839

Post by PH95VuimJjqBqy »

hnaccount_rng wrote: post #830
PH95VuimJjqBqy wrote: post #821

Earlier quoted context omitted.

only in tech... can you imagine if selling a replacement bulb for a ford headlight required you to pay 30% to ford. only in tech can this be considered fair.

I’ve got very bad news for you.. what do you think happens when Ford solicits bids for headlamps? Sure “you” don’t pay something to Ford. But Ford absolutely gets its cut

that's not nearly the same thing, stop it.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#840

Post by idopmstuff »

tivert wrote: post #797
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's incredible is the idea that an argument or a point of view is somehow invalidated purely because it happens to side with the trillion dollar company. This is in the same vein as "this cause is supported by teh evil Amerika, hence it must be evil" line of thinking, typically espoused by self-declared anti-imperialists (who are often mere anti-US-imperialists). >make a few people who already have everything even…

> What's incredible is the idea that an argument or a point of view is somehow invalidated purely because it happens to side with the trillion dollar company. What's incredible is how people waste their tiny amount of personal energy defending their exploitation by a corporation that has vastly more resources than them and objectively does not need their help. Apple is probably the poster child for effectively using…

> What's incredible is how people waste their tiny amount of personal energy defending their exploitation by a corporation that has vastly more resources than them and objectively does not need their help.

Nobody here is trying to help Apple by posting on HN. They're just discussing their viewpoints on how Apple operates and its policies around taking commission on purchases. That's what this entire message board is about - talking about tech and the like.

If they're wasting their time by posting in defense of Apple, you're doing the exact same thing with your response - neither is going to have any actual impact on the world, so either posting is a waste of energy or it's not. There's no valid argument that posting in defense of Apple is a waste of energy but posting attacks on Apple is a useful and productive thing to do.

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