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The Rust project has a burnout problem

jyn.dev

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Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#121

Post by berkes »

ninkendo wrote: post #111
berkes wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly believe GitHub has the same dynamics as most "big tech social media". Where anything that drives "engagement" gets prioritized. From algorithms that make alt-right/neo-nazi's more visible because the controversy drives "eyeballs" to features that are removed or never implemented because they would lower engagement. I'm confident that GitHub has a good prediction on what will happen if they roll out feature…

It would be a baffling decision for GitHub to make any product decisions based on engagement. They don’t even serve ads, what benefit do they have to an engaged user?

Engagement isn't just driving ads. It's driving engagement: The "toothbrush"-factor we called that in app-development: do you have an app that people pick up like their toothbrush: without much thought, several times a day?

Engagement means people have you in their workflow, on their radar. I would love it if Github is something that I don't have to think of, that is invisible and out of my mind. I'd love it if it's something I never have to visit, open, see or interact with; as as little as possible. I'd love it if it were preconfigured to take work from me rather than impose yet another inbox, timeline, bookmarks, "likes" and so on.

And if you consider "advertisements" very liberal, that's exactly what Github is: a place for companies to attract eyeballs and engagement on their software.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#122

Post by lbalazscs »

pdimitar wrote: post #105
bombcar wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best I’ve seen is have additional contributors (often who just like the project but aren’t coders themselves) who run interference for the dev team. They can triage feature requests, filter out the spam and repeat issues, etc. Also, and this can be the hard part, is sometimes you have to have someone who (even politely!) can be a bit of a dick when necessary. People scan be quite entitled and want to boss everyon…

> People scan be quite entitled and want to boss everyone around and tell them the project is run wrong - if you don’t actively run at least some of them off the devs will curl up and disappear. As an Eastern European I always found fascinating how many Westerners are struggling hard with this. To me and many of my peers (and apparently to Linus Torvalds and a good chunk of the entire Nordic culture, probably?) it's…

I guess you missed the part where Linus Torvalds has apologized for years of being a jerk.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/linus-torvalds-apolo...

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#123

Post by pillefitz »

Buttons840 wrote: post #60
cjs_ac wrote: post #4

> the best way to help the project is to keep contributing for it for years. to do that, you have to avoid burning out, which means you have to treat yourself well. When I was a schoolteacher, the way I expressed this is that you have to do the job in such a way today that you're capable of doing it again tomorrow. This did not go down well and I am no longer a teacher.

Similarly, the optimal amount of exercise is the amount that maximizes the probability that you will exercise tomorrow.

Well put!

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#124

Post by layer8 »

drx wrote: post #102
layer8 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It comes across as saying "fuck you" to your readers.

FWIW, not to me. Variety is the spice of life. It’s their blog, they should use whatever style they feel like using. Besides, is lowercase poetry a fuck you to the reader as well?

This is not an art exhibition. Conventions have a purpose. Capitalization is not a random spelling quirk, there’s a reason why we have it. The upvote balance on my comment confirms that it’s something to consider. The “fuck you” was in reference to the author’s comment, not just to his blog post.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#125

Post by fluoridation »

cjs_ac wrote: post #4

> the best way to help the project is to keep contributing for it for years. to do that, you have to avoid burning out, which means you have to treat yourself well. When I was a schoolteacher, the way I expressed this is that you have to do the job in such a way today that you're capable of doing it again tomorrow. This did not go down well and I am no longer a teacher.

Unfortunately some professions work like meat grinders. If you're not tough enough to take the grinder's teeth you get chewed out and spat out the other end, and replaced by someone else, of which there is an inexhaustible supply. Suggesting to use softer teeth just gets you replaced before you're ground out.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#126

Post by jynelson »

bayindirh wrote: post #107
jynelson wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

two reasons: 1. writing in lowercase is freeing. it reminds me that grammatical rules are arbitrary, and by extension other rules. "you can just do things." 2. people who are pedantic about this when it's clearly intentional are probably not people i want to interact with anyway, so it's a good anti-asshole filter ( https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1209794.html )

That's interesting take, thanks. I'd love to chat with you further on this issue, but this is neither the place, nor the time. Maybe I'll mail you about this in the soon-ish future if that's OK for you. Cheers!

sure, i'm happy to chat more :) my email is on my website

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#127

Post by cozzyd »

throwaway17_17 wrote: post #119
ninkendo wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be a baffling decision for GitHub to make any product decisions based on engagement. They don’t even serve ads, what benefit do they have to an engaged user?

I would assume, in the context of Microsoft encouraging engagement (specifically the PR feature of GitHub), the more engagement they have the more code is put into their system, thereby allowing them more data to train Copilot and other ML models.

conspiracy theory:

GH is Microsoft's ploy to kill open source once and for all by facilitating burnout.

(obviously false, but entertaining to think about)

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#128

Post by pdimitar »

lbalazscs wrote: post #122
pdimitar wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People scan be quite entitled and want to boss everyone around and tell them the project is run wrong - if you don’t actively run at least some of them off the devs will curl up and disappear. As an Eastern European I always found fascinating how many Westerners are struggling hard with this. To me and many of my peers (and apparently to Linus Torvalds and a good chunk of the entire Nordic culture, probably?) it's…

I guess you missed the part where Linus Torvalds has apologized for years of being a jerk. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/09/linus-torvalds-apolo...

I did not, but I have my doubts as to whether he was made to do it or if he truly meant it. I tend to believe in the former because it's always accompanied by "stepping back for a while" and "get help on how to behave better". Seems like a standard procedure after somebody manages to overpower you (in whatever hierarchy they have there).

Were cursing and expletives necessary? Absolutely no. They don't drive any point forward.

But: is showing people the door when they are entitled or unprofessional necessary? Very, very much yes.

Feel free to read into the article as your beliefs incline you to. I've known many people like Linus and they don't get "change of hearts". They simply get sick and tired of being misunderstood and just remove themselves from the situations that cause it.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#129

Post by coldpie »

jynelson wrote: post #97
bayindirh wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, hey! Thanks for chiming in. It's rare to see rejection of grammar rules on longer forms of writing, so it looked interesting. Any special reasons? Just because I like to know people through their choices and views. Didn't want to sound rude in the previous comment, so if I did, genuinely sorry (non-native speaker woes).

two reasons: 1. writing in lowercase is freeing. it reminds me that grammatical rules are arbitrary, and by extension other rules. "you can just do things." 2. people who are pedantic about this when it's clearly intentional are probably not people i want to interact with anyway, so it's a good anti-asshole filter ( https://siderea.dreamwidth.org/1209794.html )

You're going to get some strong/rude reactions from "the other side," which is unfortunate. FWIW, as a reader I do find it genuinely more difficult to read. Capitalization serves a purpose for me, it's not arbitrary. It more clearly separates each sentence. I have to put in more work to read your thoughts without it. Anyway regardless, the rudeness sucks. Sorry on behalf of others who feel as I do.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#130

Post by dmorgan81 »

zozbot234 wrote: post #118
dmorgan81 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we could beam our thoughts directly into each other's head, we would. It would be the easiest way to convey information. Alas, we don't have that ability, so we resort to the written word. If your goal is to spread something interesting don't make it more difficult for your readers by hiding your point behind a style choice that directly contradicts the readers' expectations. Capitalization goes hand-in-hand with…

OP might be a non-English language speaker. Many languages don't use capitalization at all. Some languages don't even bother to put spaces between words, it's all driven by context.

But if you're writing in English, or really any language, you should attempt to follow the rules of that language, especially if you want wide readership. Grammar rules might be arbitrary, but readers learn those rules and expect what they read to follow those rules.
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