The Rust project has a burnout problem • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#71

Post by throwaway2037 » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:02 PM UTC

thomascgalvin wrote: post #22

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This generalises to any idealism. You would not think veterinarians to be at elevated risk of suicide, but they are [0], and I think the reasons are similar: a moral dilemma caused by the mismatch between expectation and grim reality which ultimately leads to burnout and desperation. The other extreme is a "bullshit job", work that you don't enjoy and which serves no meaningful purpose. [0] https://www.bbc.com/workli…

I 100% understand why veterinarians are in a crisis. We had to let our pupper go a few weeks ago. The vet had to basically sit there and watch us while we processed the fact that we were about to pay her to kill our best friend. For us, it was the worst day we had experienced in years . For her, it was Tuesday. She had other people waiting in the room next door, and had to go from solemn to bright and cheery over the…

Is cloning your dog in Korea out of the question? I have read some articles about people who did it. Yes, it is very expensive.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#72

Post by pdimitar » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:03 PM UTC

mjw1007 wrote: post #38

markphip wrote: post #3

This is a good description of what life is like working on almost any significant open source project. The only thing not included was the comments from overly entitled users that saps whatever morale and energy you have left. Probably best he did not include that though as that is what all discussion would be about. I am not sure what to do about the burnout problem. The way he described it is very on point though.…

I think, from observation, that the Rust project has worse burnout problems than most other similarly-sized open source projects. I'm not sure whether it's more to do with the way the project is organised, the state of the codebase, or the sort of person that's attracted to working on Rust in the first place.

> the sort of person that's attracted to working on Rust in the first place

What's that even supposed to hint at?

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#73

Post by nightowl_games » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:03 PM UTC

I'm a game dev at a small studio. I have a discord full of gamers who all want me to do something or at least pay attention to them.

Every time I release something new, someone hates it.

It was hard for a bit, but I've been doing this for years.

Honestly you just gotta tune out the noise and prioritize what you want.

Open source project is a bit harder because you have to collaborate more than I have to collaborate with my gamer fans, but still, stop people pleasing and prioritize yourself.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#74

Post by bombcar » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:05 PM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #54

rkangel wrote: post #10

Do other people react as strongly as I did to the lack of capitalisation at the start of sentences? The post is generally "well" written with good grammar and punctuation so I find it strange - it feels like a style choice. But the style choice just instinctively makes part of my brain feel like it's written by a child.

Yes, not using the Shift key has become somewhat of a modern disease. If nothing else, it's a lack of courtesy to the reader. I despise it.

This was the big realization to me why spelling, grammar, etc are important. It’s not that people can’t understand various modifications and incorrect writing, it’s that it is harder for them, so you’re basically asking your readers to give more of their time to save you a bit of yours.

And it’s especially bad in a blog or similar, where there is one writer and multiple readers. I spent maybe a few seconds on this post, but it will be read five, ten, fifty times. If I wrote the whole thing in text-message shorthand, it’d be stealing time from each of those readers.

It also helps people who do not have English as their first language if you avoid abbreviations and incorrect usage.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#75

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:06 PM UTC

layer8 wrote: post #54

rkangel wrote: post #10

Do other people react as strongly as I did to the lack of capitalisation at the start of sentences? The post is generally "well" written with good grammar and punctuation so I find it strange - it feels like a style choice. But the style choice just instinctively makes part of my brain feel like it's written by a child.

Yes, not using the Shift key has become somewhat of a modern disease. If nothing else, it's a lack of courtesy to the reader. I despise it.

[deleted]

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#76

Post by Buttons840 » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:07 PM UTC

mjw1007 wrote: post #38

markphip wrote: post #3

This is a good description of what life is like working on almost any significant open source project. The only thing not included was the comments from overly entitled users that saps whatever morale and energy you have left. Probably best he did not include that though as that is what all discussion would be about. I am not sure what to do about the burnout problem. The way he described it is very on point though.…

I think, from observation, that the Rust project has worse burnout problems than most other similarly-sized open source projects. I'm not sure whether it's more to do with the way the project is organised, the state of the codebase, or the sort of person that's attracted to working on Rust in the first place.

Maybe it's because Rust is new and well designed. People who have adopted it probably care about this and want to maintain it and that's hard. Maybe it's my perfectionism, my desire to build and live in an ivory tower, but I feel this as a Rust user, a fear that they might break some perceived perfection that I care about. I've commented before that "at least C++ developers are free from the burden of using a perfect language", which was me projecting this feeling.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#77

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:11 PM UTC

thomascgalvin wrote: post #22

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This generalises to any idealism. You would not think veterinarians to be at elevated risk of suicide, but they are [0], and I think the reasons are similar: a moral dilemma caused by the mismatch between expectation and grim reality which ultimately leads to burnout and desperation. The other extreme is a "bullshit job", work that you don't enjoy and which serves no meaningful purpose. [0] https://www.bbc.com/workli…

I 100% understand why veterinarians are in a crisis. We had to let our pupper go a few weeks ago. The vet had to basically sit there and watch us while we processed the fact that we were about to pay her to kill our best friend. For us, it was the worst day we had experienced in years . For her, it was Tuesday. She had other people waiting in the room next door, and had to go from solemn to bright and cheery over the…

[deleted]

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#78

Post by jynelson » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:11 PM UTC

bayindirh wrote: post #57

rkangel wrote: post #10

Do other people react as strongly as I did to the lack of capitalisation at the start of sentences? The post is generally "well" written with good grammar and punctuation so I find it strange - it feels like a style choice. But the style choice just instinctively makes part of my brain feel like it's written by a child.

My brain tends to self-correct what it's reading these kinds of posts, and considering the author of the post has replied to the comments here in the same style, I see two options for the style. It's either done for speed, or the shift key is mapped to something else, making typing one-off capitals harder. That might equally be a stylistic choice, but I my gut says it's not.

my shift key is there i just have conscientiously objected to it

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#79

Post by pdimitar » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:11 PM UTC

tristor wrote: post #51

oaiey wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only open source. Also anyone taking ownership in companies end up like that. The difference is: The person gets paid and is ideally not emotional involved.

Unfortunately, people who take ownership and accountability are often the same people that take pride in their work, which means they aren’t emotionally detached. As long as you're emotionally attached to your work, burnout is a real risk whether you get paid or not. Ironically, the solution from my perspective is the opposite of most advice. It’s not for everyone to become drudging zombies apathetic about their work…

> my conclusion was that my burnout (and I think others too) was caused by being a caring decent person in an uncaring world

Yikes! That hits way too close to home. You didn't have to attack me like that.

In seriousness, this is a very astute and correct observation. Noticed it in myself and several others as well. It really pays off to correct your level of caring with what you see from your superiors and colleagues (and peers, in non-commercial activities).

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#80

Post by mjw1007 » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 2:12 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #72

mjw1007 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, from observation, that the Rust project has worse burnout problems than most other similarly-sized open source projects. I'm not sure whether it's more to do with the way the project is organised, the state of the codebase, or the sort of person that's attracted to working on Rust in the first place.

> the sort of person that's attracted to working on Rust in the first place What's that even supposed to hint at?

I was thinking something along the lines of people who tend to set unusually high standards for themselves.

Rust has something of a self-image of always being best-of-breed in everything it attempts, so I could believe that it might be particularly attractive to those sorts.

Other possibilities might be that Rust developers skew younger than average (I don't know whether that's true), or that its six-week release cycle attracts people who think that a year is a long time.