The Rust project has a burnout problem • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#51

Post by tristor » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:39 PM UTC

oaiey wrote: post #8

markphip wrote: post #3

This is a good description of what life is like working on almost any significant open source project. The only thing not included was the comments from overly entitled users that saps whatever morale and energy you have left. Probably best he did not include that though as that is what all discussion would be about. I am not sure what to do about the burnout problem. The way he described it is very on point though.…

Not only open source. Also anyone taking ownership in companies end up like that. The difference is: The person gets paid and is ideally not emotional involved.

Unfortunately, people who take ownership and accountability are often the same people that take pride in their work, which means they aren’t emotionally detached. As long as you're emotionally attached to your work, burnout is a real risk whether you get paid or not.

Ironically, the solution from my perspective is the opposite of most advice. It’s not for everyone to become drudging zombies apathetic about their work and just kicking the can, it’s that more people take pride, ownership, and accountability in all aspects of their lives.

Having gone through burnout and a lot of therapy, my conclusion was that my burnout (and I think others too) was caused by being a caring decent person in an uncaring world. There are far too many people who surround all of us who are apathetic and/or incompetent, yet are entrenched, and being “forced” to carry their burden has an amplified effect on the misery we feel when doing that work. When you work with a team that only has accountable, competent, engaged people it becomes energizing rather than draining.

Realistically even if I am entirely correct above, this isn’t a solution. This is just a confirmation that in my experience the old adage “hell is other people” is true and the primary driver of burnout.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#52

Post by jynelson » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:41 PM UTC

phpisthebest wrote: post #35

thomascgalvin wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 100% understand why veterinarians are in a crisis. We had to let our pupper go a few weeks ago. The vet had to basically sit there and watch us while we processed the fact that we were about to pay her to kill our best friend. For us, it was the worst day we had experienced in years . For her, it was Tuesday. She had other people waiting in the room next door, and had to go from solemn to bright and cheery over the…

>>veterinarians veterinarians are the most realists people in the medical field. While you put cost as the main factor my experience it is not simply a math problem, it is often a quality of life issue. Spending the $10,000 to extended a pets life for a another year is rarely about making the pet better, it is emotional support for the human companion of the pet while the pet will end up suffering for the year and di…

i saw a fascinating blog post about this the other day https://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-di...

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#53

Post by hprotagonist » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:42 PM UTC

> i’m not going to name names because either you know what i’m talking about…

Consider: this attitude of nod and a wink “can’t name names” strongly contributes to burnout in every community i’ve seen it in. Rust has it in absolute spades, but i’ve seen it eat other groups alive too. Maybe we can stop doing it.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#54

Post by layer8 » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:44 PM UTC

rkangel wrote: post #10

Do other people react as strongly as I did to the lack of capitalisation at the start of sentences? The post is generally "well" written with good grammar and punctuation so I find it strange - it feels like a style choice. But the style choice just instinctively makes part of my brain feel like it's written by a child.

Yes, not using the Shift key has become somewhat of a modern disease. If nothing else, it's a lack of courtesy to the reader. I despise it.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#55

Post by palata » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:46 PM UTC

EmilyHughes wrote: post #11

If you don't get paid to do something it's not fun, how about you just stop doing it?

Just like ending a relationship. Sometimes it takes time to realise that it is not fun anymore.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#56

Post by jynelson » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:49 PM UTC

hprotagonist wrote: post #53

> i’m not going to name names because either you know what i’m talking about… Consider: this attitude of nod and a wink “can’t name names” strongly contributes to burnout in every community i’ve seen it in. Rust has it in absolute spades , but i’ve seen it eat other groups alive too. Maybe we can stop doing it.

this is mean-spirited. i am not talking about malfeasance in the project, i am talking about people who are trying their goddamn best and whose lives and jobs are at stake. what benefit do you think would come from announcing to the world "hey this person might shortly be unable to do the work that makes them a living"?

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#57

Post by bayindirh » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:52 PM UTC

rkangel wrote: post #10

Do other people react as strongly as I did to the lack of capitalisation at the start of sentences? The post is generally "well" written with good grammar and punctuation so I find it strange - it feels like a style choice. But the style choice just instinctively makes part of my brain feel like it's written by a child.

My brain tends to self-correct what it's reading these kinds of posts, and considering the author of the post has replied to the comments here in the same style, I see two options for the style. It's either done for speed, or the shift key is mapped to something else, making typing one-off capitals harder.

That might equally be a stylistic choice, but I my gut says it's not.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#58

Post by navane » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:52 PM UTC

rkangel wrote: post #10

Do other people react as strongly as I did to the lack of capitalisation at the start of sentences? The post is generally "well" written with good grammar and punctuation so I find it strange - it feels like a style choice. But the style choice just instinctively makes part of my brain feel like it's written by a child.

I didn't even notice. The structure of the post is very strong.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#59

Post by reisse » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:53 PM UTC

> new contributors make PRs. they make silly simple mistakes due to lack of experience; you point them out and they get fixed

Sometimes the right answer is to immediately say "your PR is not up to project standards, it won't be reviewed, please revise it yourself if you want it accepted". It's not a job of a maintainer to educate every wannabe-contributor.

Re: The Rust project has a burnout problem

#60

Post by Buttons840 » Wed, Jan 17, 2024, 1:54 PM UTC

cjs_ac wrote: post #4

> the best way to help the project is to keep contributing for it for years. to do that, you have to avoid burning out, which means you have to treat yourself well. When I was a schoolteacher, the way I expressed this is that you have to do the job in such a way today that you're capable of doing it again tomorrow. This did not go down well and I am no longer a teacher.

Similarly, the optimal amount of exercise is the amount that maximizes the probability that you will exercise tomorrow.