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US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

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Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#661

Post by tonoto »

kelnos wrote: post #463
riscy wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've yet to see an HN hate thread about the trillion dollar company Google and its Play Store, with the same fees, stealing 30% from an even broader part of society.

While most people do install apps through the Play Store, Google doesn't lock down their platform to make it the only option. I have one alternative store (F-Droid) installed, and also have a couple apps side-loaded. Google's 30% isn't the only option on Android. Apple's 30% is the only option on iOS. Regardless, Google gets plenty of flak here for a variety of things, including how they run the Play Store.

Also, Google doesn't have a developer fee. How's that Apple both have 30% commission and a "membership" fee - https://developer.apple.com/support/enrollment/

Unfortunately, many corporations only leave the choice of Windows or Macos. Open source operating systems are treated like 3rd class passengers..

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#662

Post by cryptonym »

lynx23 wrote: post #525
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

"They are not your friend, they do not care about you" I beg to differ. As a blind user relying on accessibility, Apple was actually the first company that decided that accessibility should be an inherent part of the OS, not just an expensive add-on. Since the iPhone, blind users can just buy the product and turn speech output on, without having to install expensive extra software as was the case with Windows, for in…

This is a great result. That being said, I wouldn't bet they did that just because they cared about you in a friendly way.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#663

Post by maccard »

mihaaly wrote: post #585
maccard wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple It's incredible to me that people arguing against apple here don't realise that they're arguing to allow another billion dollar company to do what they want, and that their own opinion is the only one that could possibly be valid If you want an open ecosystem with alternative app stores, head on over to Android. The value of iOS…

Regardless, it is a phenomenon here that negative words on Apple - justified or not alike - attract numerious downvotes without comments, just for the sake of it.

Honestly, I've found nuanced discussion on this topic in any direction attracts downvotes, and reddit-tier comments like the one I replied to float to the top. It's a pity as the quality of the discussion here is usually above this.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#664

Post by qwytw »

dragonelite wrote: post #562
andersa wrote: post #373

It's incredible that there are actually people in this thread arguing in favor of Apple. You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer.

The lords and churches of the past wouldn't even dare to ask as much as 30% of revenues in our feudal past.

IIRC the standard for serfs was 2-3 days of labor per week (in some cases during harvest even up to 5), for a 6 day workweek. Add various random fees and rents and that's way more than 50-60%.

Of course everything improved massively after the plague. So it depends on which part of the middle ages we're talking about.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#665

Post by markonen »

Apple's policies for external purchases are hilarous. The only goal is to be punitive.

For the External Link Account Entitlement that "reader” apps can use to link to purchase flows off-app, Apple forbids offering IAP in the same app. Why? Because they think this will discourage adoption.

For the new StoreKit External Purchase Link Entitlement that other apps can use for the same exact thing, Apple requires an IAP alternative. Why? Because they think this, too, will discourage adoption.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#666

Post by hyperhopper »

LoganDark wrote: post #473
hyperhopper wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They shouldn't have the right to be the gatekeeper in that relationship. The wealthy people own the hardware, the devs own the app. Why does apple get the legal right to demand money in that transaction when it would be better for everyone if they weren't involved

When you buy an Apple device you don't control the hardware or the software on it. Apple does.

That should be illegal.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#667

Post by riscy »

ixaxaar wrote: post #571
riscy wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does there exist a payment processor that takes zero cut?

UPI in India has 0 fees, currently doing about 52% of all digital transactions in the country.

That’s amazing. Wish we had an equivalent in the US.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#668

Post by muro »

gigatexal wrote: post #608
remus wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also think apple's 30% cut is excessive, but I don't think this line of argument helps. We should discuss the points on their merits, not based on who's making them and how much money they have.

People also need to remember how it was before in the CompUSA or telco provided phones. The retailer or marketplace would take > 30% margins closer to 50% and to get on a pseudo-smart phone before the current smart phone era one had to ask the AT&T's and Verizon's very nicely. But now one can build apps now and publish and just pay the 30% comission or 15% on subscriptions after the second year and look at the explos…

We don't need to remember that, good riddance and great that they were disrupted. How do you disrupt this market though?

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#669

Post by amelius »

nolok wrote: post #644
ben_w wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't need to defend the trillion dollar company. They are not your friend, they do not care about you, your work or your life. True. > All they do is steal 30% from society that could be used for more productive purposes than make a few people who already have everything even richer. I'm old enough to have developed software before the App Store existed, and remember that everyone was very excited both buy it…

The problem is not that 30% is too high or too low, the problem is that it shouldn't be a % but a flat fee structure, like every other services ever. If you have an app tomorrow that sells for $10 to 10k people you owe Apple $30k, now you manage to up your price to $30, same work same size same everything, but suddenly you now owe Apple $90k ? That's called a tax, not a fee. Doing so wouldn't stop apple from having a…

> The problem is not that 30% is too high or too low, the problem is that it shouldn't be a % but a flat fee structure, like every other services ever.

I hate Apple like the next enlightened guy, but then banks and credit card companies should also charge a flat fee for their services. This isn't the case and probably never will be, however. But their fee is much more reasonable than Apple's fee.

Re: US developers can offer non-app store purchasing, Apple still collect commission

#670

Post by dimask »

charcircuit wrote: post #607
DeathArrow wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple spent billions of dollars creating an app platform with a clear monetization model I don't want their platform forced down my throat. On my PC I can download and install software from wherever I see fit. Had I not being a MacBook Pro user for the time being, I would have a chance to upgrade RAM and SSD without paying twice on the damn device. If anything, I consider Apple being an anti consumer company. What i…

>I don't want their platform forced down my throat. As a consumer the whole point of buying a computer is to get access to its app platform. It's not forced down your throat it just inherently is a part of the device's identity.

Ummm no? This is a weird take. I want a device to run software, I do not care about their app platforms per se. I have a macbook and barely use the apple store. If they prevent me from running any software apart from through their platform, that is a problem for me.
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