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Microsoft suggests command line fiddling to get Windows 10 update installed

theregister.com

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Re: Microsoft suggests command line fiddling to get Windows 10 update installed

#131

Post by cesarb »

mariusmg wrote: post #24

Why do i get this faulty patch if i'm not even using Bitlocker ? Also how the heck does something like this happens ? Did MS forgot the size of the WinRE partion which THEY created ?

> Why do i get this faulty patch if i'm not even using Bitlocker ?

You might not be using it now, but you might want to switch it on later.

And more importantly, it prevents an exponential explosion on the amount of different variants of the code. If you allow people to not get this patch, and later another bug is fixed, either you force people to get this patch before getting the next one (leading to N different versions), or you'll have to develop a fix both for people who have and for people who don't have this patch (leading to 2^N different versions).

Re: Microsoft suggests command line fiddling to get Windows 10 update installed

#132

Post by lnxg33k1 »

apexalpha wrote: post #125
hooby wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really do not agree with this comparison. Yes, it is true, that on Linux there are many, many things which are best done through command line fiddling. But installing a system update, that update borking things, belching up a totally cryptic error message, and then forcing you to clean up the mess through the command line, is nothing something I've experienced on Linux so far. For me, apt updates have always been s…

>For me, apt updates have always been super reliable - and error messages have mostly been quite specific and easy to google. Lmao, come on now. "Error: unmet dependencies"

Ohla' was about to ask where was the lacche' riding on their white horse in order to defend the multinational corporation, welcome to the conversation

Re: Microsoft suggests command line fiddling to get Windows 10 update installed

#134

Post by masto »

swells34 wrote: post #129
bheadmaster wrote: post #10

Glad to see that Microsoft is making Windows more and more similar to Linux by every passing day :)

I've never had an update issue on a Linux device. I update whenever I like, and have never been forced to. Occasionally some items fail due to dependency issues, the error messages are very descriptive, I handle the dependencies and move on with the update. Failed updates are a uniquely Windows issue in my experience, had something like 10-15 of them in my lifetime.

Your experience differs from mine. If I only count major incidents, I've had at least two occasions where a Linux operating system update completely hosed my system. One was a Rackspace VPS I never managed to recover, I had to use their management tools to download a binary image of the unbootable disk and fuss around to mount it and get my files off so I could build a new server.

I'm very hesitant to touch Linux updates, but I am occasionally "forced to" when I need to run a new piece of software that ends up being like pulling on a loose string on a sweater.

Re: Microsoft suggests command line fiddling to get Windows 10 update installed

#135

Post by vladvasiliu »

maleldil wrote: post #95
berkes wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strange. I've been on Linux some 28 years now, and it used to be like that¹. But today? I haven't had a kernel or graphics driver update failing on me for years. Maybe 10+ years? Granted, my Linux is the most boring, hardly-configged Unbuntu LTS. Boring hardware. Boring drivers. Everything optimized to "Just Work" - My machine pays my bills and if I'm down for a day because I fiddled around with some fancy custom tra…

What hardware? Your experience with Linux can be very different depending on that. For example, my laptop's WiFi refuses to work properly on Linux, so I'm forced to use Windows. Edit: oh, and not to mention graphics (Nvidia), multiple monitors and HiDPI, especially with fractional scaling and different multiples per display. HiDPI on Linux doesn't work nearly as well as Windows and macOS.

It's funny, I can say the exact same thing in reverse. My two latest laptops are boring: integrated graphics, intel wifi, run-of-the-mill hp "enterprise" fare. One running a zen3, the other an 11th gen intel.

On the AMD, I couldn't use the webcam for a good six months under Windows. It wouldn't detect some part of the USB tree.

On the Intel, for a good year, I couldn't get 4k@60Hz over DP via the HP dock. Then at some point, installing Intel drivers fixed the issue, but Windows would insist on "updating" to the older, borken version every so often. Now Windows also has the correct drivers. A different dock still doesn't work. Then there's the fact that the Windows installation (11 22h2) doesn't support the touchpad, nor the wifi card. Bonus points for the default install insisting on connecting to the internet for the online account thing.

Linux had 0 issues on both since the day I got them.

As for HiDPI, yeah, the Linux story, at least with X11, is non-existent if you want multiple HiDPI settings. But Windows is a crap shoot, too. It's easy to get a blurry mess: just connect and disconnect an external screen, and even the freaking windows 11 start menu is borked. It looks fine when you open it, but start typing something and enjoy the blurriness. Apps will be stuck with either enormous or tiny text. The context menus of the systray icons will appear all over the place.

Some apps manage to combine everything: tiny text, yet blurry, and displayed in the middle of the screen. To name and shame: Fortinet VPN client.

Re: Microsoft suggests command line fiddling to get Windows 10 update installed

#136

Post by jstummbillig »

swells34 wrote: post #130
jstummbillig wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For me, apt updates have always been super reliable - and error messages have mostly been quite specific and easy to google. The ocean between. While you or me might appreciate a good error message and handy debugging options, the standard windows user experience is optimised to not confront users with errors at all. Either approach comes with its trade offs and is implemented with varying degrees of success.

Ah yes, the classic "if I can't see the bad thing, it doesn't exist" approach to problem solving.

Different design goals. While there's tension between Windows/Linux (which, interestingly, has over the years partly been released by each adopting pages of the others' playbook) there are a lot of complex or critical systems in the world, where displaying an error message to the user is clearly not a great design choice.

Re: Microsoft suggests command line fiddling to get Windows 10 update installed

#137

Post by rimunroe »

JeffSnazz wrote: post #123
hnrhn wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the implication is not "extra vigilant ... [compared to my level of vigilance on the happy path]", but rather "extra vigilant ... [compared to other people I work or have worked with]" The latter is how I read it, because I have definitely worked on teams where the happy path was heavily scrutinised, but error handling was treated as an afterthought, and rarely inspected too closely, leading to anything from…

I don't tend towards expressing personal comparisons "in public" since they seem both inevitable regardless of the situation and disrespectful to bring up as a topic of interest—not to mention potentially exposing you as incompetent yourself. I guess not everyone else feels the same way. Hell, I'm free now! Everyone I've ever worked with sucks donkey-dick for not coding how I do!

> I don't tend towards expressing personal comparisons "in public" since they seem both inevitable regardless of the situation and disrespectful to bring up as a topic of interest—not to mention potentially exposing you as incompetent yourself. I guess not everyone else feels the same way.

> Hell, I'm free now! Everyone I've ever worked with sucks donkey-dick for not coding how I do!

I read it as "extra vigilant ... [because it's natural for people, including me, to focus on the happy path]".

I didn't read it as putting down other people you've worked with, holding yourself up as some paragon, OR potentially exposing yourself as incompetent (I'm really not sure how it would do that anyway?).

People tend to focus on the happy path. It's good to be aware of that and try to correct it. It doesn't require or imply thinking poorly of other people.

Re: Microsoft suggests command line fiddling to get Windows 10 update installed

#139

Post by JeffSnazz »

rimunroe wrote: post #137
JeffSnazz wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't tend towards expressing personal comparisons "in public" since they seem both inevitable regardless of the situation and disrespectful to bring up as a topic of interest—not to mention potentially exposing you as incompetent yourself. I guess not everyone else feels the same way. Hell, I'm free now! Everyone I've ever worked with sucks donkey-dick for not coding how I do!

> I don't tend towards expressing personal comparisons "in public" since they seem both inevitable regardless of the situation and disrespectful to bring up as a topic of interest—not to mention potentially exposing you as incompetent yourself. I guess not everyone else feels the same way. > Hell, I'm free now! Everyone I've ever worked with sucks donkey-dick for not coding how I do! I read it as "extra vigilant ...…

> I don't think it's putting down other people you've worked with, holding yourself up as some paragon, OR belittling your own abilities. People tend to focus on the happy path. It's good to be aware of that and try to correct it. It doesn't require or imply thinking poorly of other people.

My experience definitely counters your own!

Re: Microsoft suggests command line fiddling to get Windows 10 update installed

#140

Post by rigid »

jstummbillig wrote: post #128
graemep wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on distro and usage, but once installed Linux does not need command line fiddling. There are GUIs for installing and updating the OS and applications and pretty much everything else an average user does.

In that case I will have to disagree. I run a stock, up to date Ubuntu. Yes, there is a GUI for a lot of things, but I will most certainly run into something that will require me to drop to the CLI before long – which I am fine with, but I am not going to pretend it won't inevitably happen. My experience is: On Windows, for most enduser use cases (and this absolutely excludes anything dev related), I would expect the…

also nothing in linux will ever just give some cryptic hex code error or crash report.

It's either crashdump or nice error message. If not I just increase loglevel to find the actual problem.

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