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Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

penrose.cs.cmu.edu

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Re: Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

#61

Post by lifthrasiir »

b800h wrote: post #60
lifthrasiir wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say the same thing to Haskell, Curry, Ada or (more or less) Python as well.

Neither Ada Lovelace nor Haskell Curry is still alive. And Python is in a different category. It's one thing to use the name of a historical figure, quite another to use the recognisable mark of a living person. Of course, it could all be being done with endorsement, in which case, my comment is invalid, but otherwise it's incredibly rude and a borderline civil tort.

I also believe that passing off requires a demonstration of a substantial amount of probable damage in the future. The mere existence of a graphical software named Penrose can't do much harm. (If you name a malware after Penrose, that may be the case though.)

Re: Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

#62

Post by TeMPOraL »

b800h wrote: post #58

Is this actually affiliated with Roger Penrose? Seems extraordinarily rude to use his name otherwise. Was his permission sought? In fact, this may be seen as "passing off" in English law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_(surname)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose

There's enough other Penroses to choose from; sir Roger doesn't own the (sur)name.

Re: Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

#63

Post by b800h »

lifthrasiir wrote: post #61
b800h wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither Ada Lovelace nor Haskell Curry is still alive. And Python is in a different category. It's one thing to use the name of a historical figure, quite another to use the recognisable mark of a living person. Of course, it could all be being done with endorsement, in which case, my comment is invalid, but otherwise it's incredibly rude and a borderline civil tort.

I also believe that passing off requires a demonstration of a substantial amount of probable damage in the future. The mere existence of a graphical software named Penrose can't do much harm. (If you name a malware after Penrose, that may be the case though.)

What about if the software is faulty?

Re: Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

#64

Post by b800h »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #62
b800h wrote: post #58

Is this actually affiliated with Roger Penrose? Seems extraordinarily rude to use his name otherwise. Was his permission sought? In fact, this may be seen as "passing off" in English law.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_(surname) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose There's enough other Penroses to choose from; sir Roger doesn't own the (sur)name.

Yes, but his name is the obvious one. If I say "Dyson" and you're in the UK, you think of vacuums, "Penrose" and you think of Mathematical Physics.

I doubt this would come to court. The main problem is the temerity of using the name of a living person in this way. But, they could have sought permission, in which case, all is well.

Re: Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

#65

Post by eigenket »

podiki wrote: post #9

Oh, I thought these would be to create spacetime diagrams. As in Penrose Diagrams: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_diagram

There are multiple different things commonly called "Penrose Diagrams" he invented a lot of cool stuff. Here's another example

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_graphical_notation

Re: Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

#66

Post by Grimblewald »

asah wrote: post #13
sstanfie wrote: post #5

Penrose looks great. Beautiful diagrams and readable code. What are some other text-driven diagramming languages / tools? I know of: https://mermaid.js.org/ https://graphviz.org/ https://flowchart.fun/

I assume the future is an LLM where you specify everything in plain english...

it already works really well with gpt4+mermaid.

Re: Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

#67

Post by eigenket »

b800h wrote: post #64
TeMPOraL wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose_(surname) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penrose There's enough other Penroses to choose from; sir Roger doesn't own the (sur)name.

Yes, but his name is the obvious one. If I say "Dyson" and you're in the UK, you think of vacuums, "Penrose" and you think of Mathematical Physics. I doubt this would come to court. The main problem is the temerity of using the name of a living person in this way. But, they could have sought permission, in which case, all is well.

The CLI tool which turns their code into pictures is named "roger" as well.

Re: Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

#68

Post by xigoi »

hardmath123 wrote: post #51

A lot of replies here are missing the key idea behind Penrose: that the "substance" and "style" of any mathematical diagram are separable. For example, the "substance" of a diagram might be a collection of sets with known subset relationships: Set A, B, C IsSubset(B, A) IsSubset(C, A) That same substance can then be rendered in many different styles, e.g. as a Venn diagram or as a tree diagram (substance vs. style is…

> substance vs. style is a lot like HTML vs. CSS

Given the popularity of frameworks like TailwindCSS, it seems that people here don’t understand the advantage of separating HTML and CSS either, so I’m not sure if this analogy is helpful…

Re: Penrose – Create diagrams by typing notation in plain text

#69

Post by livrem »

a2800276 wrote: post #54
BarbaryCoast wrote: post #10

What's wrong with Pic? Been around for decades.

Pic is wonderful! I think what's lacking the most is modern tool integration. It more or less requires troff which is itself somewhat deprecated. I've always thought that extracting pic as standalone tool with ~modern output objects would be a nice project for once I quit being lazy :)

That sounds a lot like https://pikchr.org/.
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