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Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

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Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#31

Post by ttymck »

jwr wrote: post #20
mglz wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

*Thank you* So much hearsay from people who never really used an EV. Yes, there are drawbacks. But except for extreme long range trips EVs are perfectly usable while being more energy efficient and less prone to breaking down.

> except for extreme long range trips I'm writing this comment having just driven about 2000km-long trip with an EV :-) In cold climate (-5C). It's not my first long trip, either. My key observations (some were surprising to me): 1. You should expect to travel slower, as you will need to make breaks for charging, and the EV world presents an overly-rosy view of ranges. In a long trip, you use the battery from 10% to…

> In my case rough estimates are a stop every 2h or 250km... It's not a big deal. Especially if you can find a place to charge where you will also eat or drink.

As a huge proponent of EVs, I have to imagine a major chunk of the population would disagree with you. Most people (in the US, at least) aren't leisurely taking road trips. They are in a hurry, trying not to eat up all 3 weeks of PTO with the annual family road trip. Aside from the inconvenience, finding something to do every 2 hours with a family of 4, like eating or drinking, is liable to become prohibitively expensive, or incredibly boring.

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#32

Post by nlstitch »

samtho wrote: post #11
throw83485 wrote: post #7

In my country electricity is more expensive. Cheapest by far is LNG. EVs also have much higher costs in repairs, maintenance and car insurance.

> EVs also have much higher costs in repairs, maintenance and car insurance. Not sure about the maintenance cost being higher here. The only things that need regular service are brake and tires as all of the moving parts of an EV are contained within an electric motor assembly that are very reliable across manufacturers. By contrast, an ICE vehicle is loaded with moving parts, all of which need lubrication, have wear…

You should do more research. EVs use less lubrication but they still have to use bearings you know.. and those dry ones wear out way faster then their ICE counterparts which are constantly lubricated.

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#33

Post by vinni2 »

boyka wrote: post #3
kjkjadksj wrote: post #2

Only if you do this weird unrealistic math. Usually you need to install some infrastructure or deal with overnight slow charging. Thats if you even have a spot at home for this. Factor in your time hunting for a charger or waiting around for the car, depending on how you value your time, and maybe filling up the gas car for $40 in 3 minutes really is cheaper when you’ve accounted for all the inconvenience you might b…

Also in most countries of this world, charging an EV effectively means charging with a majority of energy derived from burning gasoline (or equivalents).

Electricity produced at scale using fossil fuels is more cleaner than ICE cars. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-15/electric-...

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#34

Post by nlstitch »

mglz wrote: post #15
nlstitch wrote: post #9

BS article, lots of frameing; You have to look at the full picture, doesnt make sense to just zoom in on one part of the equation. E.g. doesn't take into account the energy that you have to invest to charge your car (as the charge gets higher, the amount of energy needed to keep filling rises as well), Solar panels are NOT free, EVs need to charge more and it would be fair to include extra miles that are made to find…

> It is said only 25% works It is said wrong then. I drive my EV all ov er Europe and most chargers work most of the time. In three years of driving I encountered three broken stations that were shown as functional in the app.

This article was about the US, not Europe. Here is one source; https://www.governing.com/climate/why-do-so-many-ev-chargers...

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#35

Post by samtho »

nlstitch wrote: post #32
samtho wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs also have much higher costs in repairs, maintenance and car insurance. Not sure about the maintenance cost being higher here. The only things that need regular service are brake and tires as all of the moving parts of an EV are contained within an electric motor assembly that are very reliable across manufacturers. By contrast, an ICE vehicle is loaded with moving parts, all of which need lubrication, have wear…

You should do more research. EVs use less lubrication but they still have to use bearings you know.. and those dry ones wear out way faster then their ICE counterparts which are constantly lubricated.

Maintenance of bearings was a thing from the mid century up until the 80s when automakers starting putting out parts that had a service lifetime that exceeded the service lifetime of the vehicle. When is the last time you had your ICE vehicle in to get bearings repacked or replaced? Outside of actual damage (collision, premature part failure), these parts are typically replaced as a maintenance only in performance or enthusiasts vehicles now.

Also, many bearings in an ICE vehicle use special high-pressure, long-life, “tacky” lubricants that stick and do not usually mix with engine oil or transmission fluid. The bearings on the wheel hub most definitely do not but that’s also a part that both EVs and ICE vehicles have in common (which is also the easiest bearing to replace).

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#36

Post by jghn »

yathern wrote: post #28
hasty_pudding wrote: post #21

EVs may be great for someone with a home and garage to charge it, but for renters or more normal folks who have to park on the street, no ones going to add hours to their day sitting at a charging station.

> for renters or more normal folks who have to park on the street I think categorizing people into "with garages" and "normal" might be a little contentious. A quick search indicates 63% percent of all housing units have a garage or carport[1]. Housing Unit includes apartments and condos. I'm sure it's very geographic, and in large cities the number will be much lower - but many many Americans live in suburbs, where…

I assumed they weren't in the US, which could make more sense based on where they *do* live.

Where I live in the US having a garage is a luxury. However as you point out having a garage is much more "normal" in the US.

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#37

Post by bdcravens »

ttymck wrote: post #31
jwr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except for extreme long range trips I'm writing this comment having just driven about 2000km-long trip with an EV :-) In cold climate (-5C). It's not my first long trip, either. My key observations (some were surprising to me): 1. You should expect to travel slower, as you will need to make breaks for charging, and the EV world presents an overly-rosy view of ranges. In a long trip, you use the battery from 10% to…

> In my case rough estimates are a stop every 2h or 250km... It's not a big deal. Especially if you can find a place to charge where you will also eat or drink. As a huge proponent of EVs, I have to imagine a major chunk of the population would disagree with you. Most people (in the US, at least) aren't leisurely taking road trips. They are in a hurry, trying not to eat up all 3 weeks of PTO with the annual family ro…

When I drove from Houston to San Diego, most of our stops were in the 20 minute range. That said, I have one of faster charging EVs, and we don't have kids.

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#38

Post by supertrope »

ttymck wrote: post #31
jwr wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except for extreme long range trips I'm writing this comment having just driven about 2000km-long trip with an EV :-) In cold climate (-5C). It's not my first long trip, either. My key observations (some were surprising to me): 1. You should expect to travel slower, as you will need to make breaks for charging, and the EV world presents an overly-rosy view of ranges. In a long trip, you use the battery from 10% to…

> In my case rough estimates are a stop every 2h or 250km... It's not a big deal. Especially if you can find a place to charge where you will also eat or drink. As a huge proponent of EVs, I have to imagine a major chunk of the population would disagree with you. Most people (in the US, at least) aren't leisurely taking road trips. They are in a hurry, trying not to eat up all 3 weeks of PTO with the annual family ro…

While extra time for EV charging is annoying, when using a gasoline car you still have to stop every two hours to pee, stretch your legs, and swap drivers. Sitting in an enclosed space for hours on end increases the risk of blood clots. So the actual increase in stopped time is e.g. 30 min to L3 charge to 80% minus the 15 min for a restroom/gasoline/coffee break multiplied by number of stops. So an hour lost per day.

Re: Gasoline is cheap – but charging an EV is still cheaper

#39

Post by sgift »

throw83485 wrote: post #18
samtho wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> EVs also have much higher costs in repairs, maintenance and car insurance. Not sure about the maintenance cost being higher here. The only things that need regular service are brake and tires as all of the moving parts of an EV are contained within an electric motor assembly that are very reliable across manufacturers. By contrast, an ICE vehicle is loaded with moving parts, all of which need lubrication, have wear…

EVs need general battery repair or replacement after minor accidents. And spare parts are VERY expensive, like $5000 for LCD screen!

What do you count as a "minor accident" that requires battery repair or replacement?
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