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Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

economist.com

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Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#391

Post by valval »

jiggawatts wrote: post #372
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an HN comment thread, not a peer-reviewed paper on "lies convenient to the fossil fuel industries". However, for your convenience, I used google to search for "are solar panels net energy positive" and found this as the 2nd link: https://www.solarmelon.com/faqs/solar-panels-use-energy-manu... This contains a link to at least one peer-reviewed paper: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es3038824 I can almost…

If solar panels were a net energy negative, they couldn't be made and operated for a profit [1]. It's such an obvious lie, it's just painful. Very early solar cells, the type used to power calculators and the like, may have been so inefficient that their lifetime power generation didn't offset the energy cost of their production. That doesn't matter because the scale is tiny, and the portability and the elimination o…

The cases you describe in your last paragraph are not rare by any means — they’re everywhere, since all of the western world has seen a move towards bigger governments and socialism in the last decades.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#392

Post by MeImCounting »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #389
MeImCounting wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well cops definitely shouldnt have guns but everything else I agree with.

Nice to know that people who are endangered by others deserve their danger.

Ehhh I will never see a scenario where it is right for a cop to shoot or kill someone. There is a reason the courts exist. Did robocop teach you nothing? It is messed up to give some street bully the authority of judge jury and executioner.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#394

Post by gitaarik »

throwaway290 wrote: post #382
logifail wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If something is killing birds, even a lot of birds [..] then there generally isn't a lot of concern over it. ...from cat owners. There's plenty of concern from wildlife-lovers: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/14/cats-kil... I watched our neighbour's cat take a bird from a feeder in our garden earlier this month, I was pretty unimpressed :( Cats are cute, I get that ... I'm just not sure that's enou…

And I heard a cat being slowly murdered by a bird on the roof, this stuff you can't unhear... Remember that this goes both ways. Birds are probably the deadliest predator for outdoor cats. This is why cats tend to have instinctive acute reaction to big flying objects. I'm not a cat owner, I like both cats and birds

What, a bird kills a cat? How?

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#395

Post by gitaarik »

libraryatnight wrote: post #191
foxyv wrote: post #105

If we cared about birds we would be talking about reducing car traffic and saving more areas for wildlife. The argument against Solar and Wind with regards to wildlife preservation is almost always a distraction.

I think it's pretty clear if we cared much about anything we'd be doing a lot of things. But instead, we have this: We have a conversation like this one, I had it with my sister. We agree on this statement you've made in that conversation. Sister goes and buys a new gigantic SUV that gets 20 mpg. Understands we were just talking about how bad that is, but make a thousand excuses as to why she using the bad thing is a…

Or you could actually make those things more important in your life. And realise you don't necessarily need to acquire more material things all the time to live a satisfied life. And you can be an example and inspiration to other people. Life is not just about toys.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#396

Post by ThunderSizzle »

MeImCounting wrote: post #392
ThunderSizzle wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice to know that people who are endangered by others deserve their danger.

Ehhh I will never see a scenario where it is right for a cop to shoot or kill someone. There is a reason the courts exist. Did robocop teach you nothing? It is messed up to give some street bully the authority of judge jury and executioner.

I'm talking about victims who could've self-defended.

Either way, you want those people to be defenseless, and the people who are supposed to defend them to also be defenseless.

Who do you want to stop evil actions? Or does evil simply not exist?

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#397

Post by joemazerino »

knodi123 wrote: post #333
joemazerino wrote: post #328

Good luck telling India or China.

I can't quite tell in what sense you mean this- whataboutist? defeatist? something else? Anyway, we should all be part of the solution, and also work on convincing the worst polluters to join us. In fact, doing the former would help with accomplishing the latter.

The West already has the lowest carbon emissions out of all major industrialized regions. The worst polluters are India and China, both of which are building more coal plants. Crippling our economy while they build theirs is insipid.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#398

Post by pelasaco »

gitaarik wrote: post #394
throwaway290 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I heard a cat being slowly murdered by a bird on the roof, this stuff you can't unhear... Remember that this goes both ways. Birds are probably the deadliest predator for outdoor cats. This is why cats tend to have instinctive acute reaction to big flying objects. I'm not a cat owner, I like both cats and birds

What, a bird kills a cat? How?

Maybe an Eagle?

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#399

Post by MeImCounting »

ThunderSizzle wrote: post #396
MeImCounting wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ehhh I will never see a scenario where it is right for a cop to shoot or kill someone. There is a reason the courts exist. Did robocop teach you nothing? It is messed up to give some street bully the authority of judge jury and executioner.

I'm talking about victims who could've self-defended. Either way, you want those people to be defenseless, and the people who are supposed to defend them to also be defenseless. Who do you want to stop evil actions? Or does evil simply not exist?

I think maybe you misunderstood. I am pro guns. Everyone should have guns. Except cops. Cops should not have guns.

Cops represent the legal system and by giving them guns we are giving them the capacity to be judge jury and executioner. That is wrong. That circumvents the entire legal system.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#400

Post by chadbr »

VincentEvans wrote: post #102
chadbr wrote: post #36

Clearly nobody in the responses has stood next to an oil well or a wind turbine.

Elaborate. Haven’t stood next to either. My curiosity is piqued. What should I be expecting when I find myself so lucky?

For my taste - wind turbines are disgusting. A blight on the landscape for minimal benefit compared to other energy sources. Give me 1000’s of acres of solar vs 100 acres of wind farm. If you have to live close to them - they never go away… everywhere you look, giant white (why are they white anyway? Why not sky blue?) Not to mention the nighttime visual pollution. Drive into Rockport, TX after dark and its endless skyline of red flashing lights — that all cycle at the same time. Beyond obnoxious.

That just my view of the aesthetics…

Nobody ever bothers to talk about what will be done with these football field sized blades (I’m guessing at least 100k of them by now?) when they’re decommissioned? Completely useless material that has to be buried somewhere… I guess everyone here will volunteer to bury one in their backyard?

You think the “buy and dump” problem is bad in oil and gas? … do you think any of the companies who signed these 30 year leases will be around to de-com the turbines when they start falling apart? (Answer is no)

https://www.power-eng.com/news/evolving-regulations-for-wind...

Then there’s the never ending problem of freezing… nobody has good solutions and most of them involve the same harmful chemicals or secondary energy sources or helicopters or whatever that all derive from the hydrocarbons everyone seems to hate.

https://www.windpowerengineering.com/the-cold-hard-truth-abo... https://energypost.eu/how-to-keep-winter-ice-off-a-wind-turb...

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/dozens-scot...

——

As for oil wells - most are hidden from view (unless you’re in West Texas, of course … not much growing to hide them…)

Also fwiw - a pump jack is only one form of artificial lift for a well. There are lots of others systems that are far less obnoxious (i.e. you can’t see them in the brush unless you get close)

https://www.estiscompression.com/learning-center/how-to-comp...

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