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Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

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Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#141

Post by tiredcto »

omnimus wrote: post #118
abadpoli wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s interesting how subjective this can apparently be. What I saw in the video was someone standing up for themselves and fighting against perceived wrongdoing in an articulate way. That’s exactly the type of person I want on my team. I’d hire them in a heartbeat. Recording and posting company videos is bad in the general sense, but not in this case. There’s nothing sensitive or confidential in the video tha…

You might want to hire this person but the question is if your boss would want them. There is a high chace they wouldn’t want to hire specifically this disobedient person.

"disobedient"

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#142

Post by gitfan86 »

FireBeyond wrote: post #116
pandaman wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm honestly curious how CloudFlare will handle reference checks for these people Just like every other company: confirm the start date, the end date, and the job title. Nobody in their sane mind will give anything else.

I'd say that a very large portion of companies also ask, and answer, the question, "Is the person eligible for re-hire?"

Background checks only confirm information given as part of an application. Employment and job title.

References however can be more about the quality of the work including "would you work with this person again?"

HR only does the background check part. The job of an HR department is to make the company look good. They do not want to start a conversation about how they hire bad employees or initiate a conversation where the former employer will tell their side of the story.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#143

Post by Teever »

FireBeyond wrote: post #138
bitcharmer wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're very naive if you think there would be a follow up

I'm not naive. I've been on the receiving end of it. But once she's got that answer, it's clearly evident that's the answer you're getting. Refusing to move on from that isn't productive in a business setting, is more my thought. (I literally had a PIP where my manager 100% ghosted me through the entire PIP, and I created all the work products requested in the PIP, and had documentary evidence that he did not once lo…

> Refusing to move on from that isn't productive in a business setting,

Maybe that would change if more people refused to move on?

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#144

Post by hombre_fatal »

ceuk wrote: post #54
JazCE wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the UK (and most other places with fairly strong employee protections I imagine) People keep saying this, but I'm not at all convinced anyone commenting really understands UK employment law. It's really only after 2 years of working for the same company that you get any decent employment protection. It takes a bit more legal work, but if within the first 2 years they don't want you, they can get rid of you. If y…

So I made a very vague comment about it being more tricky to get rid of employees in the UK. If you think it's not actually that hard as "it takes a bit more legal work", great.. but we still seem to generally agree. It's a bit patronising to imply I know nothing about UK employment law because we have a small difference of opinion around how robust we would say the protections are. It was a minor anecdotal comment b…

Meh, you contributed to a certain meme and they contributed a counter-meme because they feel strongly about it. I don't see the problem though their tone might put you on the defense.

But these vague claims are how we end up with memes like "oh that would never happen in $place/Europe/Japan" and such.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#145

Post by FireBeyond »

Teever wrote: post #143
FireBeyond wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not naive. I've been on the receiving end of it. But once she's got that answer, it's clearly evident that's the answer you're getting. Refusing to move on from that isn't productive in a business setting, is more my thought. (I literally had a PIP where my manager 100% ghosted me through the entire PIP, and I created all the work products requested in the PIP, and had documentary evidence that he did not once lo…

> Refusing to move on from that isn't productive in a business setting, Maybe that would change if more people refused to move on?

Oh yes. "Who can out-stubborn the other party versus finding common ground" seems quite helpful...

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#146

Post by try_the_bass »

Spivak wrote: post #134
seadan83 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A very small dataset where I experienced this is going to fast or casual food restaurants 15 to 30 minutes before they close. Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. I do not at all believe this is unique to the Tik-Tok generation. > As well after Covid things are different like people don't and don't want to work as hard as they use to. Do you have any evidence…

> Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. If you do this you're a jerk. They've already started the process of cleaning the kitchen because they want to leave at close like you want to leave at 5. Do you start something new at 4:45 or do you pack up? If you do this and really believe it's "making people do their jobs" you've graduated to asshole and they're treati…

The counterpoint to this is: if the restaurant wants to stop serving food at 4:45 so the staff can leave at 5, they should close at 4:45 instead of 5.

"Closing time" is external-facing, and customers shouldn't be expected to know that it actually means "4:45 so the staff can go home at 5".

It's not a cultural thing, it's about clearly setting expectations. If you publicly state that closing time is 5, and you're not okay with someone coming in to order at 4:45, that's on you, not them. Trying to justify "you can't order a half hour before closing" as a "cultural norm" is just making excuses for poor communication, imo.

Besides, isn't expecting everyone to understand your specific cultural norms fairly... Exclusionary?

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#147

Post by jstarfish »

sangnoir wrote: post #129
JambalayaJim wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She specifically set herself up to be recorded and then shared it across the internet. That is the problem part, not her questioning of the HR people (which was a show for the camera!) That kind of “I’m the main character” type energy would be a lot to deal with, especially for a 4 month employee.

Yes, she didn't follow the rules. Whether one views that as inherently problematic broadly follows the value-system I outlined earlier. I think her breaking (the letter of) the rules is amply justified in this case - others clearly disagree. AFAICT, she didn't violate the spirit if the rules - no confidential. information was revealed.

[flagged]

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#148

Post by dumpsterdiver »

gruez wrote: post #96
justanorherhack wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually the opposite imo. With polarizing events like some people will indeed dislike her greatly and judge her for it but others who agree with her position will rally behind her and go out of their way to hire her. As long as there are people in her camp, she has likely received an outcry of support and multiple interview requests with likely some leadership opportunities.

>With polarizing events like some people will indeed dislike her greatly and judge her for it but others who agree with her position will rally behind her and go out of their way to hire her. As long as there are people in her camp, she has likely received an outcry of support and multiple interview requests with likely some leadership opportunities. It's not going to help her much if everyone rallying behind her are…

Yeah, at that point you'll just have several videos of everyone looking bad, instead of just one.

I truly do believe that if/when people like this finally get their way and have nothing left to rail against, they'll simply look inward to their own group for something to take issue with, and around they go.

Honestly ask yourself, would some of the more vocal activists truly be happy if their mission was suddenly accomplished? Or would they discover that their existence now feels empty, and that their entire modus operandi actually revolved around eliciting strong emotions from others?

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#149

Post by j4yav »

wbl wrote: post #105
j4yav wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the main reason they are motivated to blame performance so that they can avoid paying out disability (edit: unemployment) insurance?

You get UI even if fired unless it was for misconduct. Being bad at your job is not misconduct.

Then what’s the point of taking a shot at someone barely out of training to say it was their fault?

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#150

Post by paul7986 »

try_the_bass wrote: post #146
Spivak wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. If you do this you're a jerk. They've already started the process of cleaning the kitchen because they want to leave at close like you want to leave at 5. Do you start something new at 4:45 or do you pack up? If you do this and really believe it's "making people do their jobs" you've graduated to asshole and they're treati…

The counterpoint to this is: if the restaurant wants to stop serving food at 4:45 so the staff can leave at 5, they should close at 4:45 instead of 5. "Closing time" is external-facing, and customers shouldn't be expected to know that it actually means "4:45 so the staff can go home at 5". It's not a cultural thing, it's about clearly setting expectations. If you publicly state that closing time is 5, and you're not…

Well per their comment there is now such a cultural norm and it's ok to cuss out with your body language and attitude to treat customers as such. That worker does it to others per Facebook comments about that jersey mikes. 7 months later she is still there so just maybe this is the new norm ..not one that makes sense but Covid changed the game some to a lot.
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