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Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

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Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#121

Post by FireBeyond »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #93
fma wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if 1000 companies says she's wrong, it just takes 1 to agree for her to continue her career. Pretty good odds given the millions of views I'd speculate she has a job next week.

Hey, I'm more likely to hire her. She can stand up for herself and ask good questions in a difficult spot. That's the kind of employee I want. (And several people on Twitter were saying, "I want to marry her." Indeed, that's what Jeff Bezos was looking for long ago. He said he wanted a woman who could bribe someone to get him out of a third-world prison. Well, he had that. Then he threw it away, in my completely unin…

> She can stand up for herself and ask good questions in a difficult spot.

And when she asks those questions and the person across the table says "I'm happy to get those answers for you and give them all to you, but I don't have them and can't get them right now in this meeting"...

... and she just keeps repeating the same question without moving forward?

That's not how you handle "a difficult spot".

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#122

Post by bitcharmer »

FireBeyond wrote: post #117
abadpoli wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s interesting how subjective this can apparently be. What I saw in the video was someone standing up for themselves and fighting against perceived wrongdoing in an articulate way. That’s exactly the type of person I want on my team. I’d hire them in a heartbeat. Recording and posting company videos is bad in the general sense, but not in this case. There’s nothing sensitive or confidential in the video tha…

> What I saw in the video was someone standing up for themselves and fighting against perceived wrongdoing in an articulate way. That’s exactly the type of person I want on my team. I’d hire them in a heartbeat. Initially. But then they respond by saying that they are willing to follow up with her separately with the answers to her questions, but they don't have them there and then. Not having them there and then is…

You're very naive if you think there would be a follow up

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#123

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #114

The language really gets me. Maybe (happily) I've been out of corporate America for too long to get it... "... part ways with you..." --> "We've decided to fire you." "...Rosie might be better to explain the process of who's giving this information ..." --> "Rosie can talk about why it's us vs. your manager." "...this is a collective calibration for Cloudflare..." --> what the fuck? "...if you can respect that . We c…

The purpose of this kind of language is minimizing the chances that you put your foot in your mouth, not clarity or conciseness.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#124

Post by k8svet »

omnimus wrote: post #118
abadpoli wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s interesting how subjective this can apparently be. What I saw in the video was someone standing up for themselves and fighting against perceived wrongdoing in an articulate way. That’s exactly the type of person I want on my team. I’d hire them in a heartbeat. Recording and posting company videos is bad in the general sense, but not in this case. There’s nothing sensitive or confidential in the video tha…

You might want to hire this person but the question is if your boss would want them. There is a high chace they wouldn’t want to hire specifically this disobedient person.

Disobedient? She's being fired. Honestly, I think the whole thing is mostly a nothing burger. Gen not-my-gen finding out about capitalism and at-will employment at the worst time, I guess. Watching tech over the last year makes it clear how out of touch lots of people are. Employers, employees, exploiters, exploitees. Especially the highly-comped ones. All of the sudden surprised the gravy train has run out.

But "disobedient", is quite a word choice.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#125

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #123
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #114

The language really gets me. Maybe (happily) I've been out of corporate America for too long to get it... "... part ways with you..." --> "We've decided to fire you." "...Rosie might be better to explain the process of who's giving this information ..." --> "Rosie can talk about why it's us vs. your manager." "...this is a collective calibration for Cloudflare..." --> what the fuck? "...if you can respect that . We c…

The purpose of this kind of language is minimizing the chances that you put your foot in your mouth, not clarity or conciseness.

...but it's ALL foot-in-mouth

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#126

Post by sangnoir »

omnimus wrote: post #118
abadpoli wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s interesting how subjective this can apparently be. What I saw in the video was someone standing up for themselves and fighting against perceived wrongdoing in an articulate way. That’s exactly the type of person I want on my team. I’d hire them in a heartbeat. Recording and posting company videos is bad in the general sense, but not in this case. There’s nothing sensitive or confidential in the video tha…

You might want to hire this person but the question is if your boss would want them. There is a high chace they wouldn’t want to hire specifically this disobedient person.

> There is a high chace they wouldn’t want to hire specifically this disobedient person.

I had a niggling suspicion the opposing views on her employability are because the commenters are on opposite ends of the authoritarian axis.

My thesis is people who strongly believe in (power) hierarchies as the natural order of things will see her actions as unacceptable, and an affront to social order itself since she has proven she can't be trusted to submit to the rightful authority regardless of circumstances.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#127

Post by paul7986 »

theodric wrote: post #119
paul7986 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends I think on the demographic hiring her as the TikTok generation as you can see are all on her side (older generation might view her as young/inexperienced/whiny to entitled brat). It might be a good PR stunt to hire her and thus look good in the eyes of possibly the millions who commented in her favor. As well after Covid things are different like people don't and don't want to work as hard as they use to…

> Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours. Try asking a Swiss man in his late 50s/early 60s at a Swiss bank to do a medium-sized but achievable task at 15:00 on a Friday and see what kind of response you get. I had several under me, so I know firsthand that you'll likely get grumbling and pushback. You'll probably get the work product, but it will come with critica…

Sure and my experiences were at a McDonald's like fast food place we have in the US called Wendys and at a sub shop like Subway called Jersey Mikes.

I can semi understand 15 minutes at the sub shop and even asked the worker is it too late to make me a sub? She said no then proceeded to slam the meat, bread, etc on the counter, huff/puff and roll her eyes at me while her co-worker says we are closing soon. This same worker does this to many in the town as a handful of others complained about her in a FB group thread. She is still working there giving the same attitude. They are paid $20 an hour plus tips. After Coivd the employee is always right cause i guess they are hard to find now and retain.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#128

Post by JambalayaJim »

sangnoir wrote: post #126
omnimus wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to hire this person but the question is if your boss would want them. There is a high chace they wouldn’t want to hire specifically this disobedient person.

> There is a high chace they wouldn’t want to hire specifically this disobedient person. I had a niggling suspicion the opposing views on her employability are because the commenters are on opposite ends of the authoritarian axis. My thesis is people who strongly believe in (power) hierarchies as the natural order of things will see her actions as unacceptable, and an affront to social order itself since she has prov…

She specifically set herself up to be recorded and then shared it across the internet. That is the problem part, not her questioning of the HR people (which was a show for the camera!) That kind of “I’m the main character” type energy would be a lot to deal with, especially for a 4 month employee.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#129

Post by sangnoir »

JambalayaJim wrote: post #128
sangnoir wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a high chace they wouldn’t want to hire specifically this disobedient person. I had a niggling suspicion the opposing views on her employability are because the commenters are on opposite ends of the authoritarian axis. My thesis is people who strongly believe in (power) hierarchies as the natural order of things will see her actions as unacceptable, and an affront to social order itself since she has prov…

She specifically set herself up to be recorded and then shared it across the internet. That is the problem part, not her questioning of the HR people (which was a show for the camera!) That kind of “I’m the main character” type energy would be a lot to deal with, especially for a 4 month employee.

Yes, she didn't follow the rules. Whether one views that as inherently problematic broadly follows the value-system I outlined earlier. I think her breaking (the letter of) the rules is amply justified in this case - others clearly disagree. AFAICT, she didn't violate the spirit if the rules - no confidential. information was revealed.

Re: Cloudflare Termination Video: A Master Class in How Not to Terminate Someone

#130

Post by seadan83 »

paul7986 wrote: post #100
barbazoo wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as that can tank a person's entire career trajectory Plus the act of career suicide by publishing company meeting recordings on social media.

That depends I think on the demographic hiring her as the TikTok generation as you can see are all on her side (older generation might view her as young/inexperienced/whiny to entitled brat). It might be a good PR stunt to hire her and thus look good in the eyes of possibly the millions who commented in her favor. As well after Covid things are different like people don't and don't want to work as hard as they use to…

> A very small dataset where I experienced this is going to fast or casual food restaurants 15 to 30 minutes before they close. Some will cuss you out in a nice way for you making them do their job close to closing hours.

I do not at all believe this is unique to the Tik-Tok generation.

> As well after Covid things are different like people don't and don't want to work as hard as they use to.

Do you have any evidence beyond anecdata for this assertion? My understanding is the "great resignation" was people upping their salary requirements, basically the willingness to break your body and soul for pennies is significantly lessened. In other words, minimum wage labor became more scarce and/or just more expensive. Are you willing to work for half of your current pay? If you were, would you work less hard?

For the knowledge that we do have, per the person being fired, they were a diligent worker. Seemingly to have done pretty well after a short ramp-up period even. This is why the firing is an even bigger kick in the nuts, she worked hard, was praised for that hard work by her manager, and then HR comes in and says she was not doing well at all. I would turn this around a bit, perhaps the older generation feels entitled that they can treat people like this.

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