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Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

economist.com

331–340 of 413 posts

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

quote: simply saying they're lies is just as disingenuous as the people making the statements in the first place paraphrase: the claim that these are lies are just as disingenuous as the claims themselves claim: I didn't say that I confess that I can't quite see the difference.

I'm not @jairuhme.

Ah, entirely fair point! :) Sorry about that.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#332
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you unconsciously keeping nuclear energy out of the equation, or why is nuclear not an option in your mind - where then bird populations will be better off, and where solar also isn't destroying the surface environment where life and forests could otherwise thrive [if we're talking about having energy generated locally, then most of the world doesn't have convenient desserts nearby, which arguably we could also t…

Based on the past 30 years, I think the safe assumption is that there will not be much nuclear built in the US+Europe in the next 15 years.

I wouldn't really base my safety on a simple shallow metric like amount of time passing.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#333

Good luck telling India or China.

I can't quite tell in what sense you mean this- whataboutist? defeatist? something else?

Anyway, we should all be part of the solution, and also work on convincing the worst polluters to join us. In fact, doing the former would help with accomplishing the latter.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because cats are not a power source? I'm genuinely confused how they would even be part of this conversation.

I think they're bringing it up because cats are indeed the #1 killer of birds, and so for people who care about maintaining bird populations (presumably people who read this article) it would be better to focus on solutions that decrease the damage cats to do birds, rather than the damage wind turbines + oil-and-gas plants do to birds. Of course, if you care about birds you're going to try to solve it across multiple…

Also dogs aren't great for bird populations. Especially here in NZ where we have some flightless birds. I would even argue that dogs are a bigger issue here. At least around where I live, a large majority of people own at least 1 dog and often go walking with them in native reserves, often ignoring on-lead or no dog rules.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elaborate. Haven’t stood next to either. My curiosity is piqued. What should I be expecting when I find myself so lucky?

Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQksc1-5Zoc imagine living with that 12 hours a day. like a drop of water hitting your forehead every few seconds. forever.

As in most places the earth is rotating fully once every 24 hours the sun isn't stationary in the sky. Consequently the depicted shadow - if it is bothersome at all, is so only a few minutes per day. Mind that, only on a clear day, clouds would prevent taht too.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Felis Catus doesn't have a native range in any meaningful manner, IMO. They are a global species like us, because of us. You can't put that cat back in the bag no matter the .22 cartridges you expend.

That shouldn't stop us from trying to limit their growth. "The cat is out of the bag" so to speak, but a lot of the growth comes from runaway cats, or cats that have been abandoned by their owners (happens more often than you think) We could start by requiring all domestic cats to be sterilized, so that they don't breed. Then the cat population would be limited to certified breeders and wild cats. We could also have…

I agree with that. Though we'd need some cost effective way to monitor on leash etc rules are followed by the owners. Around here we have native reserves to try bring back native birds, but vast majority of dog owners ignore the existing leash or no dog rules.

Most summers the reserves turn into more of a free dog toilet, and with the vast numbers of dogs going through, it ends up smelling quite bad to.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#337
post #145

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In my case I haven’t been able to manage indoor only but I’m sure others are able to.

Can your cat operate door locks or something? It really isn't difficult to keep a cat indoors only.

Luckily I've never had a cat with an opposable thumb (whew!). But where I live in california there is a highly permeable interface between indoor and outdoor, with no screens. Most of the year there are doors and huge windows open all day unless nobody is home. In other words, I don't have a lifestyle that could feasibly restrict a cat to the indoors. When I lived on the 5th floor of a city building, yes. Other than that: no.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people struggle to motivate themselves to do their part on huge collective action problems like climate change. That's why national and international political action is needed, and in turn needs smaller groups of individuals to put in effort supporting campaigns for such action. That said lots of people do care in their daily lives and also put that care into practical individual action - and have a fun and mea…

Wouldn’t it be more effective to phase out oil and coal production? Couldn’t that be enforced with remote sensing satellites and cruise missiles? I’m not seeing the collective action problem here. All the personal shaming stuff feels like a big grift.

Phasing out oil and coal production would be great, but that's a task for politics. It is still a collective action problem though since any such agenda needs to gain popular support in a democracy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_action_problem As individuals we can both take some actions to reduce climate impact in our daily lives and also support movements and campaigns for actions on the political level. No contradiction there.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#339
post #25

The local birds killed by oil drilling aren't even what we should be comparing to. Even if that number were zero, bird populations world still be better off in a world powered by wind turbines than oil and gas. Global warning is coming for birds too. Global warming poses an "existential threat for two thirds of North American bird species" [1] and obviously a similar proportion of bird species around the globe. 1. ht…

Domesticated cats are by far the biggest threats to birds worldwide. You won't see anti-wind advocates talking about curfews or outright banning them though.

Ban my cat and you'll likely lose someone who does regularly vote for environmentally friendly politicians and you may get a new voting pattern out of me, and a lot of other people I suspect.

Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because cats are not a power source? I'm genuinely confused how they would even be part of this conversation.

Because anti-wind activists have brought them up.

More specifically, it's a disingenuous argument brought up by oil lobbyists.

It's directly comparable to gun nuts justifying their right to own weapons designed to murder people by claiming that it's for "protection". Those same people have zero interest in better door locks, stronger windows, or anything that would actually protect them. They just want the guns. The protection argument was never made in good faith, it's an excuse at best.

The "wind generators kill birds" argument is the same type of thing, typically made by people that would cheerfully feed every native bird they can into a grinder and sell the pulp for a profit if they could.

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