Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an HN comment thread, not a peer-reviewed paper on "lies convenient to the fossil fuel industries". However, for your convenience, I used google to search for "are solar panels net energy positive" and found this as the 2nd link: https://www.solarmelon.com/faqs/solar-panels-use-energy-manu... This contains a link to at least one peer-reviewed paper: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/es3038824 I can almost…
This is an HN comment thread, hence we expect a higher quality of comments than elsewhere on the Internet. Thanks for the links.
Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
281–290 of 413 posts
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agree 100%. Wind turbines killing birds is a disingenuous argument when it comes to climate change. > Birds of prey in Africa experiencing population collapse, study finds > new research used road surveys to find that nearly 90% of the 42 raptor species studied had experienced declines, with more than two-thirds showing evidence of being globally threatened. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/04/birds-o…
> Agree 100%. Wind turbines killing birds is a disingenuous argument when it comes to climate change. If the people involved in this conversation actually cared about birds, they wouldn't be worried about either. They'd be worried about cats. Cats kill about 20-55% of the entire US bird population every single year. Somewhere between 1.3B and 4B birds per year in the US alone. [1] And an order of magnitude more small…
Humans eat 8 Billion chickens per year in the US alone: https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22287530/chicken-beef-fac...
Some 15 MegaKilos of chicken: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/chicken-c...
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#283It's estimated that cats kill 1.3–4 billion birds each year in the U.S. alone, with 69% of these kills attributable to feral or unowned cats: https://www.allaboutbirds.org/news/faq-outdoor-cats-and-thei...
> We initially focused this search on US studies, but due to a limited sample of these studies, we expanded the search "Our data about US were so poor that we needed to add data from other continents" > cats kill 1.3–4 billion birds each year in the U.S. "But we still ended somehow with this bold and likeable value made with a mix of pure air, foreign data and statistical spice" Another case of turd data polished to…
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#284Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
> That, cannot be tolerated. Why, exactly?
If you search zoning meeting wind turbine Google images it will be revealed quickly. Scan the demographic. Old people who've already gotten theirs with mostly invented blame for ailments. It's all downside for them, to see their landscape change and plant a tree who's shade they'll never see.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
That shouldn't stop us from trying to limit their growth. "The cat is out of the bag" so to speak, but a lot of the growth comes from runaway cats, or cats that have been abandoned by their owners (happens more often than you think) We could start by requiring all domestic cats to be sterilized, so that they don't breed. Then the cat population would be limited to certified breeders and wild cats. We could also have…
That's my take. I like animals, so I decided to not own any of them. I wonder how people manage to love their animals and remove them from their natural environment. I know that we've come a long way and pets have had humans around them for ages, but to me it still feels like we're doing them harm. I know that nature is even harder, but it's not like pets decided to live that way. It's also hard to understand why peo…
I've owned cats and dogs. I can let them outside and leave the door open, and they may go outside to explore or play briefly, but they'll want to come inside shortly afterward. Especially my dog - he doesn't even want to be outside by himself, except to relieve himself. He has herding instincts and is uncomfortable being alone outdoors for more than a short time. He would much rather be around people, but if he had to be by himself, then he'd rather be indoors. (Observation: if I were to leave the house, and left the back door open, he'd still spend most of the day inside rather than in the yard.) My cat acts downright frightened being outside.
It's not really possible to discuss what is "natural" here, and I'd recommend being cautious about the naturalistic fallacy [1]: the idea that because something is 'natural' it must be better. It is 'natural' for humans to die of all kinds of diseases, yet we do not wish to, and so we treat ourselves with antibiotics and other medicines. It is 'natural' for children and women to die in childbirth, but we take substantial steps to prevent that, and so on.
In the case of domesticated animals, it's hard to reason about what "natural" even is. The animals have adapted to living with humans; they want to be around humans. They aren't feral, and wouldn't want to live by themselves in the wilderness any more than a human would. They have a choice every time I open the door.
(And yes, if they ran away, I would feel obligated to find them, but that's because I'm responsible for their health and safety, not because they are my prisoners. The point is that they don't even come close to making the choice to do that. It is far more likely that they would simply get lost outside than actually intentionally run away. This has happened once before to my dog, and his emotional reaction upon me finding him demonstrated compellingly that he felt lost and was happy to be found and reunited.)
I might feel conflicted if I ever had a pet that behaved like it wanted to escape from me, but that's never been the case. Even pets that do enjoy to spend time outdoors alone - and I'm happy for them to do that - always want to return to the safety of the home after a time. I would not enjoy having a pet if I thought at all that it felt like a prisoner.
Lastly, I would remark on the fact that these animals were raised from infancy by humans and around humans. They are socialized to be part of the family, just like people are. While it is true that they would have different personalities if they were raised in the wilderness, the same would also be true of a human child. If a human child were abandoned alone in the wilderness and somehow survived, then this human would undoubtedly have great difficulty socializing as an adult, and fitting into a family - yet we would not say that this wild person is somehow better or more natural. We would say that their upbringing was cruel.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Elaborate. Haven’t stood next to either. My curiosity is piqued. What should I be expecting when I find myself so lucky?
Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQksc1-5Zoc imagine living with that 12 hours a day. like a drop of water hitting your forehead every few seconds. forever.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#288Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
An indoor-only cat kills no birds. Bonus points for spaying/neutering.
In my case I haven’t been able to manage indoor only but I’m sure others are able to.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
> We initially focused this search on US studies, but due to a limited sample of these studies, we expanded the search "Our data about US were so poor that we needed to add data from other continents" > cats kill 1.3–4 billion birds each year in the U.S. "But we still ended somehow with this bold and likeable value made with a mix of pure air, foreign data and statistical spice" Another case of turd data polished to…
You provide quotes but no attribution for those quotes.
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380?WT.mc_id=FBK_NCOM...
"Methods: We searched JSTOR, Google Scholar, and the Web of Science database [...] within the Web of Knowledge search engine [...] to identify studies that document cat predation on birds and mammals"
"We initially focused this search on US studies, but due to a limited sample of these studies, we expanded the search to [...] other temperate regions. We also searched for studies providing estimates of cat population sizes [on] the contiguous USA and for US studies that estimate the proportion of owned cats with outdoor access and the proportion of cats that hunt wildlife. [Our] search terms included: ‘domestic cat’ [combined] with ‘predation,’ ‘prey,’ ‘diet,’ ‘food item’ and ‘mortality’;"
"We estimated wildlife mortality in [...] USA by multiplying data-derived probability distributions of predation rates by distributions of estimated cat abundance"
"[]" edited by me for clarity
Data-derived distributions based on a poor sample were extrapolated to every ecosystem in US?
Data with a special focus on temperate areas were extrapolated to temperate and non temperate? Have deserts the same amount of birds as forests?
Assuming that preys are equally distributed on USA would need to assume that every ecosystem is equal, or that cats are equally successful chasing birds in all terrains. This seems unlikely. To start because birds migrate and its distribution is patched. Cats can't migrate. Taiga in winter don't has the same birds as Florida in winter