Clearly nobody in the responses has stood next to an oil well or a wind turbine.
Why would you want to stand next to either?
They are not exactly located in urban areas...
Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
141–150 of 413 posts
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#142The title is symptomatic for the climate discourse; either for or against oil/coal and wind/solar. I find the question "what is a reliable, clean and affordable energy source?" much more relevant and productive.
> "what is a reliable, clean and affordable energy source?" "Clean" and "affordable" map immediately and obviously onto wind and solar; what then happens is people engage in a lot of wrangling around "reliable" to push nuclear, requiring bending both "clean" and "affordable" quite a bit and running into an invisible other criteria of "quick to deploy" and "politically acceptable".
It's mislieading to use "politically acceptable" like "quick to deploy". What's "politically acceptable" is something we shape with every word we say and which differs accross countries.
Speaking of countries, I could reduce this answer to one word, which refutes every single point you make: France.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#143The entire "it kills birds" feels like such a canard, to me. I don't understand to whom this kind of appeal is directed. It seems to me that the primary interests at stake are 1) the myriad financial interests in the extraction, distribution, and consumption of petroleum-based energy products, and 2) the negative impact on the environment of these same activities.
So let's just have that discussion, on those terms?
I cannot believe that someone like Donald Trump, for example, actually gives a shit about birds, and that that is what informs his opposition to the use of wind turbines. It seems unlikely, although possible, that that argument would persuade others of a like mind? And there have been other, similarly pitiful positions advanced, such as that an increase in the use of solar and wind power increases our exposure to UV radiation and skin cancer, from the sun?
I just don't understand why these arguments are made, and to whom. I cannot imagine that either 1) they would convince anyone who cares about the debate, or 2) that the population of people who WOULD be convinced by such arguments, would amount to much - either in the size of the population or the force of their support.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#144Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
I’m a cat owner but probably will never get another one. Definitely not if I move back to Australia.
An indoor-only cat kills no birds. Bonus points for spaying/neutering.
In my case I haven’t been able to manage indoor only but I’m sure others are able to.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#146Clearly nobody in the responses has stood next to an oil well or a wind turbine.
Elaborate. Haven’t stood next to either. My curiosity is piqued. What should I be expecting when I find myself so lucky?
Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQksc1-5Zoc
imagine living with that 12 hours a day. like a drop of water hitting your forehead every few seconds. forever.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#147If we cared about birds we would be talking about reducing car traffic and saving more areas for wildlife. The argument against Solar and Wind with regards to wildlife preservation is almost always a distraction.
If we cared about birds we'd be aggressively controlling the cat population.
Cats are a scapegoat to deflect the incalculable damage done to wildlife by humans themselves, their industries and habitat expansion.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "what is a reliable, clean and affordable energy source?" "Clean" and "affordable" map immediately and obviously onto wind and solar; what then happens is people engage in a lot of wrangling around "reliable" to push nuclear, requiring bending both "clean" and "affordable" quite a bit and running into an invisible other criteria of "quick to deploy" and "politically acceptable".
It's mislieading to use "politically acceptable" like "quick to deploy". What's "politically acceptable" is something we shape with every word we say and which differs accross countries. Speaking of countries, I could reduce this answer to one word, which refutes every single point you make: France.
France have done better than most, largely due to building their fleet before Chernobyl, but even they have long term maintenance and cost overrun problems that led to shortages: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2022/08/26/edf-s-n...
And the EDF reactor project in the UK is of course overrunning on time and budget.
(when is the next French nuclear reactor new build scheduled to come on line?)
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#149The entire "it kills birds" feels like such a canard, to me. I don't understand to whom this kind of appeal is directed. It seems to me that the primary interests at stake are 1) the myriad financial interests in the extraction, distribution, and consumption of petroleum-based energy products, and 2) the negative impact on the environment of these same activities. So let's just have that discussion, on those terms? I…
Based on the people I’ve heard make points like this, I don’t think it does convince anyone.
I think this type of argument fills a totally different role:
“I don’t believe or care about climate change and would like to keep my life as is, but this creates cognitive dissonance when someone shows it’s bad. I can use this argument to say your idea is as bad too! Dissonance lessened.”
At least when I’ve heard it it’s that context. The person saying it doesn’t really care if it’s accurate or equivalently bad, just that they have a gotcha to say when presented evidence for wind being good.
Re: Wind turbines are friendlier to birds than oil-and-gas drilling
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
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Because they migrated or are in hibernation, adaptations that exist precisely to accommodate the particular climate of your area. Disrupt that and you mess up their ecosystem. I really fail to understand how this kind of glib response persists even in forums like this one where people claim to be good at reasoning.
Lots of these are bots, and be careful responding to them, as HN views responding to the anti-science brigades as “not in the spirit of good conversation”, and will readily post limit you (while funnily allowing anti-science to remain rampant, while also complaining about how bigotry and anti-science is becoming too rampant here).