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eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

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Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#81

Post by MOARDONGZPLZ »

low_tech_love wrote: post #34

The filings said the couple had been left "emotionally, psychologically, and physically" terrorised. I always find it interesting that, when people sue other people/companies for some kind of harassment, they have to claim something like this. Shouldn’t it be obvious? Like, they got weird stuff by mail and got stalked. That should be enough? What if they didn’t actually got scared, what if they laughed at it? They we…

The crux is that all crimes have a list of elements which must be proven before the whole thing is a crime, or tort. Breaking this one down hypothetically using California’s Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress law, the plaintiff must prove that someone did something outrageous, that the defendant intended to cause emotional distress, that there was emotional distress, and that the emotional distress was from the defendants actions. So each of those individual things must be alleged, and proven with evidence. This is why they always allege things like being terrorized rather than not stating the obvious, because they wouldn’t be successful because they didn’t meet all the elements of the crime, or tort.

Note in the California law, it can be less than intentional (meaning, wanted and intended for the distress to happen) and can be as low as recklessly did something that they should have known would have caused distress, a lower bar than “intentional” for this particular element.

https://www.justia.com/trials-litigation/docs/caci/1600/1600...

Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#82

Post by throwaway2037 »

Scoundreller wrote: post #22

Their civil case is ongoing if anyone wants to follow here: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/60073359/steiner-v-ebay... Complaint is pretty damning (if true): https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mad.236...

Outstanding post. Thank you to share.

Page 5, paragraph 12: > Yikes.

If the defendants lose, do you have any idea how large the settlement might be?

Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#83

Post by ethbr1 »

irjustin wrote: post #79
thebruce87m wrote: post #5

> The acts of intimidation included sending live insects, a foetal pig and a funeral wreath to the Steiners' home in Natick, Massachusetts. If someone I knew claimed that eBay execs were sending them things like this I wouldn’t believe them. It’s like something from a TV show.

Where do people get the idea that 1) This will work. 2) it's a good idea 3) that in US, you won't get sued for it. This is some weird 1950's mob loan shark tactics.

> weird 1950's mob loan shark tactics

How long have you hung around with sales and marketing folks?

Most of them are reasonable, but in a role where you rapidly switch companies and are comped heavily on closed sales... the outliers are really out there.

Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#84

Post by saghm »

batch12 wrote: post #56
forinti wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if you show your fist to a child or to Mike Tyson it's the same threat?

> So if you show your fist to a child or to Mike Tyson it's the same threat? Based on the meaning of the word threat, yes.

If I showed my fist to Mike Tyson, he's pretty likely to guess that I would fail miserably if I tried to follow through, and I'd be the one who ended up getting punched...and he'd be right. It's not crazy for the legal system to take that into account.

Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#85

Post by sarchertech »

debugnik wrote: post #71
cqqxo4zV46cp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love “computer people incorrectly try to transfer their ‘expertise’ to law”. Gotta be one of my favourite parts of HN.

Sound to me like they're talking (their) philosophy rather than existing law. I for one agree, harassment shouldn't be considered lesser just because the victim admits to having a thick skin.

There’s a few things going on here. In a civil case, we are concerned with righting a wrong as much as we are with deterring future bad behavior. To attempt to undo damage, you need to know how much damage was done.

Additionally, some civil offenses do come with precomputed statutory damages, but it’s not possible to come up with such a number for every possible scenario. In the case where there isn’t a precomputed number available we fall back to computing a number after the offense happens based on the circumstances at hand.

Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#86

Post by hsuduebc2 »

dekhn wrote: post #35
dylan604 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder what the rules on sending live specimens through the post are. Knowingly not using the right markings on the package can cause issues. When they ask you if you have any of "these" things in the package and you then say no would be a federal crime. Messing with the postal inspectors tends to be wildly underappreciated at the repercussions they can inflict.

I have had a snail mailed to me, via snail mail, before. I also get live tardigrades mailed, but they go by UPS.

You did something or just met a psycho?

Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#87

Post by ethbr1 »

alright2565 wrote: post #44
lesuorac wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you guys are missing the actually comment. The question isn't "can you send live animals" the question is "what happens if I sent a live/dead animal and _don't_ tell USPS". That question is not answered by the section (?) 526 rules [1]. [1]: https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_008.htm

There's no problem mailing dead animals: > The following factors are applied to all shipments of mailable live or dead animals: > … Protection of the mail and the environment against the following: … Obnoxious odors and noise. > ...protection of animal specimens against spoilage https://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c5_003.htm There's some other restrictions on mailing dead wild animals, but mailing livestock carcasses…

I believe the Hot Zone (though maybe not the Reston incident it was based on?) starts off with leaking deceased monkey remains arriving at a pathology lab.

Few better ways to spoil a pathologist's morning than a package with a blood stain in one corner.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/25-years-ago-in-virginia-a-very...

Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#88

Post by neilv »

Having seen the universalhub.com reporting on this over the years, it's frustrating to still see headlines like "...live spiders and cockroaches...", which grossly understate it (e.g., repeated death threats, and physical stalking by a team they flew out).

Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#89

Post by DANmode »

thebruce87m wrote: post #5

> The acts of intimidation included sending live insects, a foetal pig and a funeral wreath to the Steiners' home in Natick, Massachusetts. If someone I knew claimed that eBay execs were sending them things like this I wouldn’t believe them. It’s like something from a TV show.

Surely you grasp that this is why the rich and or powerful (used to?) get away with lots, and why many feel they can do things like this, often with no true consequences.

Re: eBay pays $3M fine in blogger harassment case

#90

Post by lozenge »

emilfihlman wrote: post #50
throwup238 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(IANAL) The amount you win in a lawsuit has to be based on actual damages so if you want to sue for emotional distress it has to fit the legal definition which depends on the jurisdiction. Since emotional distress isn't bound to any hospital bills or other quantifiable harm, it generally pays quite a bit more.

Damages shouldn't be subjective but based on the acts committed.

If I send spiders to somebody who ordered it to feed a pet, or I send it to a museum, it's the same act. So same damages due?
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