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"Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

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Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#251

Post by sliverstorm »

pjscott wrote: post #223
sliverstorm wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be realistic, there isn't really any culture that 100% of the best/qualified programmers would want to work in.

But the thing is, a company don't need 100% of the best programmers; in the extreme case of a small startup, you just need a handful of them to get off the ground. If you can make an environment that a few people love, even if most people wouldn't like it, that could be a competitive advantage in hiring. Companies like the ones that the article criticizes may actually be doing themselves a favor, even as they alienat…

OKCupid came to exactly the same conclusion in regards to dating; strongly appealing to some people is much better than generally appealing to a lot of people.

(For anyone not familiar with them, they are a dating website that periodically mines their database and discusses observed trends in their blog)

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#252

Post by [deleted] »

ZephyrP wrote: post #204
fleitz wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than just women. I've been programming for 10 years and I don't like the culture. It's not the brogrammer stuff either. It's more the incredibly negative attitudes and litany of social faux pas. Programming isn't the only job that pays well and rewards the highly intelligent. Women probably aren't going into software dev because they're socially acclimated enough to realize what a bad deal it is. Software s…

If holding power over others and perpetuating inequitable power balance in capitalistic structures is your ultimate goal, I certainly would never admit to it as you just did. As a programmer I mega-cringed when I read this and would certainly never work for you or any company you worked for if I read this. So please, be more dismissive. (Re: Downvotes - So I guess we should just treat programmers with derision and th…

[deleted]

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#253

Post by scott_s »

thwest wrote: post #243
srconstantin wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Until I see evidence that "bro companies" are more successful than normal ones, I have no qualms about shunning them.

You would be happy with a definition of success that allows for the sidelining of an entire gender?

I think his point was that if we shun them, and they wither and die, then their shunning of a gender ceases to be an issue.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#254

Post by base698 »

showerst wrote: post #47
base698 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they don't, they're a fucking startup. They don't have pointy haired bosses or 900 page corporate manuals outlining when it's OK to take bathroom breaks.

That's _entirely_ different from "If you do anything that will make anyone of {these protected classes} uncomfortable by saying/doing something relating to {their protected class} membership, we could be sued for hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars, and you will be disciplined". HR lawsuits are a _huge_ risk, _especially_ for a small company, it seems like a no brainer for people smart enough to run an inter…

Sure, go ahead and sue me for my money that doesn't exist! Paper millions != real hard millions

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#255

Post by [deleted] »

ZephyrP wrote: post #204
fleitz wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than just women. I've been programming for 10 years and I don't like the culture. It's not the brogrammer stuff either. It's more the incredibly negative attitudes and litany of social faux pas. Programming isn't the only job that pays well and rewards the highly intelligent. Women probably aren't going into software dev because they're socially acclimated enough to realize what a bad deal it is. Software s…

If holding power over others and perpetuating inequitable power balance in capitalistic structures is your ultimate goal, I certainly would never admit to it as you just did. As a programmer I mega-cringed when I read this and would certainly never work for you or any company you worked for if I read this. So please, be more dismissive. (Re: Downvotes - So I guess we should just treat programmers with derision and th…

[deleted]

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#256

Post by chc »

Produce wrote: post #222
pharrington wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? If someone knows neither where Paris nor London are, then yes, saying "Paris is far from London" indeed isn't useful. Is the distance between them a two hour drive? Do they lie half-way around the world from each other? Except in pathological cases, we barely know how physiology affects large scale behavior, let alone how particular brain functions influence how one's interests develop and how they excel at acti…

But we do know the net effects of sex on developing an interest in programming, namely that there is a negative correlation between being female and having said interest. The question is what comprises this effect and how much of it is nature as opposed to nurture. Basically, it depends on if you approach it from a hollistic perspective (where the effect of sex is the compound of physical capability and social influe…

> But we do know the net effects of sex on developing an interest in programming, namely that there is a negative correlation between being female and having said interest.

Do we? That observation doesn't appear to account for the fact that the numbers are strongly correlated with culture, nor that women's presence in CS has been declining in Western countries but increasing in others.

This is kind of like saying we knew the net effects of race on personal productivity by looking at Japanese internment camps during WWII — it's a very shallow and facile view of the topic.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#257

Post by nikcub »

fab13n wrote: post #18

> To literally handicap yourself by 50 percent is insanity. This is very PC, but BS nonetheless. At the stage when people can be profitably hired by start-ups, the male/female ratio is nowhere near 50% among technical candidates. I'm not saying that frat culture isn't harmful, nor would I dare to guess why women are underrepresented among development professionals; but defending a thesis with such grossly false asser…

he is including guys who wouldn't work with dickish 'brogrammers'

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#258

Post by Alex3917 »

egillie wrote: post #231
Alex3917 wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if it applies to other countries outside America. I don't have a cite offhand unfortunately, you'd have to read some books about the history of education in America.

Could you give an example of one of the laws? This is new to me too

If I remember correctly there were many laws specifying that men were to be paid less than women and were to be subject to other degrading treatment. It's hard to find a good example of an actual law though because until recently virtually all states regulated education at the local level.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#259

Post by slantyyz »

127 wrote: post #216
Kadin wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My own conjecture is that women don't want to do software development because it's boring and difficult. Why would women find this more of a problem then men do? You're just replacing one unproven assertion with another, the latter that women are more sensitive to "boring and difficult" jobs than men are. I can't think of any compelling reason or even any evidence for that, given the number of "boring and difficult…

>Why would women find this more of a problem then men do? I did not say this. What I said that women have more of a choice not to have a career and still succeed in raising a family.

> What I said that women have more of a choice not to have a career and still succeed in raising a family.

Yeah, not so sure about that statement either, given economic times.

Re: "Gangbang Interviews" and "Bikini Shots": Silicon Valley’s Brogrammer Problem

#260

Post by danilocampos »

batista wrote: post #132
kingkilr wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a) These "jokes" are beyond unacceptable. b) Violent video games do increase aggression in kids, it took less than 2 seconds to find dozens of journal articles on the subject.

>a) These "jokes" are beyond unacceptable. Well, I accept them 100%. And millions of people too, if I judge from every comedy show, comedy movie, joke book, etc.

> Well, I accept them 100%.

I think that says more about you than it does the jokes.

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