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Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

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Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#31
> And it even stumbled in its quest to build the US President’s new Air Force One.

Technically of course, Air Force One is a call sign, not an aircraft. The quote is from an FT article which indicates the Boeing bill for retrofitting two custom 747-8s was $3.9B USD, marked down from 5B after Trump called the price "ridiculous". I agree with him.

https://www.ft.com/content/d2bd472b-0e5d-459f-8503-04633aefe...

Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#32

In what way is Airbus different? (Honest question of someone who has no knowledge about this industry.)

airbus was made as a very deliberate political project from various european countries to stay competitive in the airline bussiness.

Mind you this happened around the same time many foundations of a lot of european institutions where formed, and airbus is the primary example of a intra-european company in both its bussiness form (being an S.E[0]) aswell as in the way its products get build across different member states.

Airbus has done the thing that the EU aims to do on a political scale, merge many different smaller european entities to stay competitive against both the US and China on the global scale.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societas_Europaea

Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to take a long time, but first is to destroy the myth that corporations have one purpose they need to fulfill: Generate revenue and ensure things are profitable for shareholders. This myth artificially took root in the 1970s. Business schools have to stop teaching this.

It took root in 1919, so I don't think that's actually the issue. The problem is short-term thinking based on financial markets and the ability of corporations to reinvest their capital freely. Regulating stock buybacks and the ability of corporations to invest in markets will cut down on corporate fissure.

why 1919 specifically?

in my opinion, it seeems to have been enormously on the rise since the end of world war 2 and especially after the end of the cold war.

Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#34
Here's what I don't understand: the 737 MAX was introduced in 2017. In 2018, two of them dropped out of the sky, the grounded for a while, it turned out Boeing had lost its engineering culture and its priority for safety, and it became clear that the 737 MAX had some serious design problems that they had tried to fix in software.

And according to this article, the 737 MAX is Boeing's best selling plane ever.

Why? Why are airlines so eager to buy such a compromised model from a company that destroyed its reputation? Is it really that cheap?

Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#35
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can reasonably be done to combat it? Leadership at all the biggest firms is on board with shareholder capitalism. To them, Welch style management just means line goes up...

You need the owners to actually care.

Also, we need the state to act in the best interest of the people it serves, instead of in being held hostage by a few with much economic weight.

The state should wield power it derives from the mandate given to it by it's people, and it should defend the capability to influence the economy with that.

This fact seems to have been forgotten since the end of the cold war, when neoliberal theory seems to have been the defacto "truth" in economics.

Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#36
post #21

Jack Welch style management and shareholder capitalism are some of the most destructive forces in the US economy.

What can reasonably be done to combat it? Leadership at all the biggest firms is on board with shareholder capitalism. To them, Welch style management just means line goes up...

> What can reasonably be done to combat it?

It was enabled by deregulation, so regulation seems important.

That was enabled by more overt bribery of politicians (PACs, super PACs, etc.). So stop the bribes.

That happened simultaneously with changes in how business was depicted by media, whether news or entertainment. So . . . convince the heads of that small handful of companies to change their representations.

And so far that's just the US. All of these things are global.

My point is that just combating the existing problems is akin to whack-a-mole. A new pervasive philosophy will replace neoliberalism, though. Maybe put effort into pushing whichever of those seems best?

Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#37
post #34

Here's what I don't understand: the 737 MAX was introduced in 2017. In 2018, two of them dropped out of the sky, the grounded for a while, it turned out Boeing had lost its engineering culture and its priority for safety, and it became clear that the 737 MAX had some serious design problems that they had tried to fix in software. And according to this article, the 737 MAX is Boeing's best selling plane ever. Why? Why…

The world is very small, and it can't support that many companies making passenger aircraft. If you want aircraft of that size, you have to buy Boeing or Airbus. Both are sold out until the 2030s. And if you are already operating Boeing aircraft, it's more cost-effective to buy more of them instead of switching to Airbus.

China spent ~15 years developing the C919, and it's finally entering mass production. But it also appears to be sold out until the 2030s.

Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#38
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's going to take a long time, but first is to destroy the myth that corporations have one purpose they need to fulfill: Generate revenue and ensure things are profitable for shareholders. This myth artificially took root in the 1970s. Business schools have to stop teaching this.

That will only happen if we change laws to make boards and executives criminally liable for these types of problems. We need to pierce the corporate veil and directly go after the responsible individuals when they, either directly or by deliberate ignorance, cause problems that lead to people dying etc. No shielding behind a corporation if your decisions to make lots more bucks led to avoidable deaths.

That isn't the corporate veil unless you mean to go after the owners/shareholders. Considering changes to what limited liability corporations can and cannot do is a potential avenue.

Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#39
post #34

Here's what I don't understand: the 737 MAX was introduced in 2017. In 2018, two of them dropped out of the sky, the grounded for a while, it turned out Boeing had lost its engineering culture and its priority for safety, and it became clear that the 737 MAX had some serious design problems that they had tried to fix in software. And according to this article, the 737 MAX is Boeing's best selling plane ever. Why? Why…

Well a lot of them didn't fall out of the sky and were used like millions of times, and the reason a few of them did was ostensibly fixed so now the chances of them falling out of the sky is even less than when most of them already weren't.

Re: Did a 1997 merger ruin Boeing?

#40
post #34

Here's what I don't understand: the 737 MAX was introduced in 2017. In 2018, two of them dropped out of the sky, the grounded for a while, it turned out Boeing had lost its engineering culture and its priority for safety, and it became clear that the 737 MAX had some serious design problems that they had tried to fix in software. And according to this article, the 737 MAX is Boeing's best selling plane ever. Why? Why…

The world is very small, and it can't support that many companies making passenger aircraft. If you want aircraft of that size, you have to buy Boeing or Airbus. Both are sold out until the 2030s. And if you are already operating Boeing aircraft, it's more cost-effective to buy more of them instead of switching to Airbus. China spent ~15 years developing the C919, and it's finally entering mass production. But it als…

The world is very small, and it can't support that many companies making passenger aircraft. If you want aircraft of that size, you have to buy Boeing or Airbus. Both are sold out until the 2030s.

There's an apparent contradiction here.

China spent ~15 years developing the C919, and it's finally entering mass production. But it also appears to be sold out until the 2030s.

And here.

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