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The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

afterbabel.com

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Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#781
post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To your pet cat, the difference between you scrolling on your phone and you staring at the wall is nothing. This stuck with me for a moment, and made me feel like scrolling was effectively doing nothing at all, which is sad and best and sick at worst.

Sorry to make you feel bad, but that exact realization is the reason I don’t do remote work anymore. (I still scroll on my phone here and there!) A cynic might retort that reading a book is also “doing nothing”, but I think there is a certain physical presence that is missing with the scrolling. Hard to describe, but you know it when you feel it.

I still work remote, but go to a co-working space most days even if it's just half a day.

Getting dressed, out of the house, and seeing real people face-to-face is a huge boost to my mental health.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> massive net wealth transfer to the richest Those rich people created the wealth. Wealth was not "transferred" to Bill Gates, for example. Gates created products. He then sold these products to people, who believed those products were worth the money they paid for them - i.e. it was an equal value trade. That is how Gates made money. It wasn't a transfer. Theft, taxes, donations, subsidies and welfare are examples o…

> Gates created products. No he didn't. His employees did. The transfer of wealth was from the employees of Microsoft to Bill Gates by means of information asymmetry: Bill Gates knows what his employees are worth (i.e. the value they create, on average), but they don't. So he pays them what they'll accept and keeps the surplus. But if you're not convinced, consider the cartel behavior of major SV employers when it co…

> No he didn't. His employees did.

Gates traded money for the work of his employees. It was a fair trade, as both parties freely agreed. (Pedantically, Gates wrote Microsoft's first product - BASIC.)

> The transfer of wealth was from the employees of Microsoft to Bill Gates by means of information asymmetry: Bill Gates knows what his employees are worth (i.e. the value they create, on average), but they don't.

You imply that they were stupid. They certainly were not. And at any time they could have demanded more money. And at any time they could have quit, started their own company, and received the full value of their work. (Many did so, the PNW is full of them.)

Story time! I know of a very successful salesman at BigCorp. He generated vast quantities of sales for them, and was paid him well. He could walk into any company and be ushered in to see the CEO, and make a sale. He quit to join a startup and do the sales.

He was unable to close a single deal. He couldn't even get an audience from the decision makers in other companies, let alone see the CEO. He returned to BigCorp, who was happy to get him back.

The point is, it was BigCorp standing behind him that enabled his success. Without that, it just didn't work for him.

> consider the cartel behavior of major SV employers

I know about that. The cartel was a handful of employers. It did not cover the zillions of other tech companies, nor was it remotely effective in stopping startups that they could start.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#783
A spiritual void, a loss of social cohesion, isolation, alienation, a loss of a culture that reinforces ways of life that enable flourishing, radical individualism. The decline of traditional religious faith in the West. The sexual revolution and its dreadful distortion of human sexuality. The culture of consumerism and the worship of desire and appetite divorced from reason and one's objective good.

So what's a smell that suggests this is the case? According to the triple melting pot theory, in countries like the US, ethnic identity, under the tendency toward some kind of assimilation, gives way to religious identity as not only religious identity, but a substitute for ethnic identity.

So what happens with the waning of religious identity? Various dehumanizing ideologies start to look attractive. This explains both the appeal of the sexual, racial, and ecological ideologies that have become popular recently. These ideologies promise identity and social belonging, perhaps even an alleged higher purpose, which is to say they offer false and flimsy identities, ones that have political utility for those who control them. Various subcultures, many created by corporate interest around various products, do the same thing. You have "communities", so-called, that center around owning a particular brand of something. Corporate brand constructed false identities.

People don't know who they are. They've alone. They don't know the address of the destination, or even that there is an address. Their horizon goes only as far as satisfying their base appetites, and they pay lip service to ideologies to avoid being shunned from groups without which they cannot satisfy those appetites. And when they do, they discover that their satisfaction isn't all that it is cracked up to be. Here follows the realization that no hope is to be found in what has been sought. From here: suicide, or some higher realization.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#784
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, capitalism is bad for the earth and for the humans. Who would have thought!

But still better than the alternatives that have been attempted so far.

Like asking the ultra rich to pay taxes?

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#785
post #717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To your pet cat, the difference between you scrolling on your phone and you staring at the wall is nothing. This stuck with me for a moment, and made me feel like scrolling was effectively doing nothing at all, which is sad and best and sick at worst.

Sorry to make you feel bad, but that exact realization is the reason I don’t do remote work anymore. (I still scroll on my phone here and there!) A cynic might retort that reading a book is also “doing nothing”, but I think there is a certain physical presence that is missing with the scrolling. Hard to describe, but you know it when you feel it.

There are so many different kinds of scrolling though.

For me:

- HN scrolling to find ideas/inspiration, staying longer if I find something interesting

- Twitter scrolling to get a glimpse of what's going on in the world and then staying if I get baited by something :D

- Facebook scrolling, usually for a particular purpose these days (maybe once every other week on average, to check up on someone in particular I happen to think of), then staying scrolling for a bit, past irrelevant posts for a while, where I might get warm/happy/nostalgic by some updates

- Instagram scrolling takes literally 30 seconds before I get annoyed by the ads and close the app (happens 100% of the time although I might last 1-2 minutes some times)

Those are all quite different experiences and I could do them all in quite different ways. I used to mindlessly scroll FB for example while not using Twitter at all. The psychological effects were quite different, but perhaps more socially attuned?

Nowadays I scroll less overall and more for intellectual reasons.

But... getting caught in the "must... scroll.... more...." mode is the same for all of them psychologically (Youtube as well), the same addictive behavior.

So yeah. I think there needs to be a distinction between scrolling for a (moderately healthy) while and doomscrolling. The algorithms can be quite very helpful in presenting relevant data, but they're also a potential black hole.

Oh and I'm not sure why I was replying to you specifically. I guess you got to be my therapist today.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider all the labor regulations since. All the complexity of the taxes. The design of cars today is completely driven by regulations - for example, the tendency for cars to all look alike comes from regulation of every aspect of them. Regulation has driven a lot of industry out of America, as it made it too expensive to operate here. In what area has government been reduced?

> Regulation has driven a lot of industry out of America, as it made it too expensive to operate here. Do you have any sources? I think most offshoring is driven by significantly lower labor costs in other countries. For example, China has a highly controlled economy, but American companies still offshore work there simply because labor is cheaper. Indeed, we've seen some "onshoring" in recent years[1] now that autom…

No, I don't have a specific cite. But the reason for offshoring is always going to be about lower total costs, of which labor is a large component. There are quite a lot of regulations around labor and benefits, along with the NLRB which is very tilted towards the interests of unions. California recently passed a law where the wages of fast food workers are set by some government board.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#787

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jonathan Haidt is a very thoughtful researcher and has been looking at this and related issues for a very long time. I think your dismissal is perhaps a bit too casual.

"the overprotection of children, the rise of “safetyism,” and the shouting down of speakers on university campuses when students deemed the speaker to be “harmful.” The emphasis is mine. What does that to do with any of this? University students aren't children and, agree or disagree with the result, they are the ones with agency there.

Haidt is referring to the heckling and deplatforming of speakers on (US) university campuses because some group disagrees with their message. And one aspect of "safetyism" invoked to that end is claiming that to allowing said (lawful, non-inciting) speech itself per se makes students "feel unsafe", aka the "words are violence" trope Haidt mentions frequently. See e.g. 2016 NYU The Forum: "Right to Say: Freedom, Respect, and Campus Speech" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTU3hxgr2Kc

(As to to who ultimately has agency in inviting/platforming/deplatforming/protesting/canceling speakers on US campuses, that's a very long-running story, can involve media, donors, boards of regents, not just the students etc. But yes, noone's compelling the students to attend and listen, and in any case they can speak in response.)

A 2020 article on "safetyism" as defined by Haidt and Lukianoff in their book, The Coddling of the American Mind: “Safetyism refers to a culture or belief system in which safety has become a sacred value, which means that people are unwilling to make trade-offs demanded by other practical and moral concerns.” : https://www.insidehighered.com/blogs/just-visiting/safetyism... . One incident commonly cited was the 2015 Yale Halloween costume matter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Christakis#Yale_Hallo...

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#788

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to drink yourself into the hospital with wine? I know Europeans drink a ton but remarks like this really drive home the point. One bottle of wine is easy to drink and enough to get me vomiting. Two wouldn't be hard and is definitely in alcohol poisoning territory for people who aren't experienced alcoholics. Anyway, I don't think America should emulate European drinking laws until it can be shown that Europeans…

If you’re not a veteran wine drinker, which few adolescents are, then it takes real effort and dedication to get crazy drunk on wine. If you pass out it’s because you wanted to pass out. With distilled spirits, and especially cocktails, it’s not at all hard to get dangerously drunk without intending to, so it’s a lot riskier.

Huh? If you're a novice to wine it's much easier to drink way too much. It tastes like juice and you can drink way too much too fast. At least liquor tastes like gasoline to warn novices off. Of liquor, beer and wine, wine is easily the most dangerous for novice drinkers.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#789

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK working hours (especially working hours per household as women work more) have increased. No one has the time for community. Schools have also deteriorated and kids are put under a lot of pressure to achieve academically. I opted mine out.

Housing costs have increased, daycare is shooting through the roof, and everyone seems to be working harder to scrape by, at least in the US. Daycare in particular is quite painful; there are high standards, but government subsidy is so low that simultaneously parents cannot afford it and programs cannot afford to staff adequately.

The unspoken truth is daycare is highly regulated and that regulation compliance is much of the contributing factor. Either compensate constituents for the externalities of your protective legislation or go back to letting any jill turn her house into a an unlicensed daycare center which is the dirty truth of how people got by for an affordable price before.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#790
post #718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both are protecting from anything outside of one's comfort zone. What's next, shout down politicians you don't agree with? That's not how democratical societies work.

Or it's merely intolerance of intolerance. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Quite a lot of aggressors consider themselves to be righteous ad good when they attack some unpopular person/people.

The paradox of intolerance stems from the 1930s. When we stay there for a bit longer - do you think that the participants of the Kristallnacht considered themselves evil? No, they were brainwashed into thinking that they were righteous, fighting to save their country from corruption and evil brought upon it by ... their victims, who "had it coming".

"We are fighting for a just and important cause!" or "We are protecting the vulnerable!" means precisely nothing from the mouths of a mob. A mob is mostly a psychopathic entity that just seeks rationalizations for its outpouring of violence.

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