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The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

afterbabel.com

641–650 of 937 posts

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the kind of worldview that comes from years of navel-gazing in a therapist's office. "Why do I beat my kids? ...Because my father beat me! Now that I understand why I do it, I can stop beating my kids..." Or, you could just stop beating your kids. Which of these approaches is more likely to result in someone changing their behaviour? Is there any evidence that advice to “just stop X” is as or more effective…

> s there any evidence that advice to “just stop X” is as or more effective than causally aligned methods? There is clear evidence that taking longer to stop beating your kids is more harmful to them so less effective than just stop beating them.

[deleted]

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally get downvoted hard when I raise my hand as an advertiser, but here goes. I think scapegoating advertising is a mistake, because I think we're missing the real problem. Yes, advertising can and often is unethical and harmful. I can't speak for other advertisers, but I take ethics very seriously. I don't participate in advertising aimed at making problems seem bigger than they are for the sake of selling a…

I think what changed, which is pretty easy to identify is an increased invasiveness in placement and format of advertising. Advertisements in the past had always been fairly simple to ignore. Billboards, commercial breaks, and print or even radio ads were disconnected from the content. Today ads are in many cases often indistinguishable, even if labeled from content. Facebook ads look like regular posts, and many ads…

That type of content has always existed, though. They were called advertorials. Endless books going back to at least the 40s advocated making ads look as similar to regular content as possible for the very effect you're describing.

So I'm not arguing that that's not a bad thing. It is a bad thing, in my opinion. Anything that's done to deceive the audience in any way is unethical.

I'm saying it's not new, and certainly didn't suddenly take off in 2010. It's been a mainstay in mass media for almost as long mass media has existed.

Further, what Facebook has done is treat all ads the same as regular content. That's not something advertisers chose to do; it's something Facebook chose to do. Blaming advertisers for a decision they had no part in is missing the mark.

To be clear, I think many advertisers are probably pretty happy with what Facebook did there. But that's not the same as the advertisers being responsible for that decision. Facebook did it because it led to more clicks and therefore more revenue for Facebook. Same thing with how Google has progressively made search ads nearly indistinguishable from regular search results. Advertisers didn't do that. Google did. Advertisers didn't decide to make the first 75% of results on Amazon be sponsored or promoted products. Amazon did that themselves.

> Google, Amazon, And Facebook are 3 of the 6 largest companies in the US and are effectively advertising companies.

They're media companies, not advertisers. They sell advertising, as virtually all media companies do (with exception for publicly funded or high-subscription-fee companies). Advertisers buy advertising space.

So if your argument is that Google, Amazon, and Facebook are making advertising worse, I agree. If your argument is that advertisers (the people buying the ads) are making things worse, and that this correlates to the drop in mental health, I don't completely discount the theory; but I'd need to see a lot more evidence to support that contention.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#643
post #513
post #2

I’m not a parent nor am I a teen so take my comments with a grain of salt. The one thing that has consistently jumped out to me on this topic is how quickly people seem to jump to convenient answers. Of course you can’t ignore the rise of social media since 2010, but what about the level of control, structure, and surveillance that most young people have been subjected to over the same arc of time? That gets no atten…

This is a great point. So my parents were well-intentioned but were immensely restrictive in all areas of my life. I can't imagine just how much worse it'd be with the monitoring and restriction tools that are available nowadays. I actually stop myself from posting things on Instagram given that I have them on there. So I think there's some truth to this.

It's also worth noting that 'restrictiveness' is subjective. Your parents could be too restrictive for _you_, but in an alternative universe your hypothetical sibling could complain that his parents didn't care enough, let him do whatever and didn't prevent him from doing some things that he later he regretted, for instance starting drinking too early, getting himself involved in some sketchy people etc.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1930's movies were blamed for the decay in society. In the 1960's comic books were blamed for teen problems. In the 70's it was rock music.

The connection here does seem to be a lot more firm. Teen suicide rates are way up, and they do seem to strongly coincide with widespread smartphone and social media adoption. Do you believe those correlations are just circumstantial?

I have a different theory which is just as plausible.

These teen mental problems are a result in a shift in attitudes in America - the attitude that everyone is a victim, achievement is bad, one should get everything for free rather than the old idea that kids should work for their goodies, the mounds of presents kids get for Christmas, participation awards, everyone gets an A, parental supervision of kids play even into mid teens, testing is bad for kids' self-esteem, kids are too fragile for testing, and so on.

I.e. the old virtues of industriousness, thrift, personal responsibility, etc., have all but disappeared.

For example, in my day (when people walked uphill to school both ways) kids routinely got jobs as soon as they turned 16. Today, many peoples' first jobs are not until they graduate from college. That's a massive change.

Kids need to learn how to deal with adversity as they grow up. Parents these days are able to remove all adversity from kids' lives, up until the mid-teens. Then, parents cannot do that anymore, and the kids have not developed coping skills for adversity. No coping skills, parents can no longer fix it for them, leads to mental health crisis.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#645

The instinct is to treat this as an apocalyptic change of some sort in society. Here's an alternate framing. The DSM-5 was released in 2013.

Does the DSM-5 redefine "suicide attempt"? Self-reported mental health? This is what is being discussed in TFA. And yes, it is concerning.

It greatly expands the diagnostic criteria associated with "self-harm" and will increase monitoring and diagnosis of these phenomena. Note that the suicide rate does not show this inflection, either in the US or internationally. An omission that makes this article intrinsically suspect.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depressant doesn't mean it makes you depressed. Alcohol is as old as civilization and absolutely will improve mental health if not over consumed. It's called having fun and enjoying your limited time here.

Are there non-alcoholics over the age of 30 that actually believe this? I don't even drink, but alcohol after college has been nothing but trouble.

I’m in my mid-40s and am not an alcoholic. But I am quite shy. A drink or two in a social setting can absolutely help me open up and engage with others and enjoy myself. And having good social interactions improves my mental health.

Of course trying to drink away your depression doesn’t work, but alcohol can be a tool in a mentally healthy lifestyle.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#647
post #8

Few deny that a drinking age is necessary. We also need a smart phone age. It's quite obvious that many teens are addicted to their phones and the mostly useless content they consume there.

> Few deny that a drinking age is necessary.

That's only because teetotalers never really went away. Even after the repeal of Prohibition, they still existed and eventually morphed into MADD. In Europe drinking ages are pretty relaxed. France was serving wine to school children.

So yeh, I deny it. And that I'm alone in doing it has more to do with ovine tendencies of humanity, than anyone actually giving it much actual thought.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was taught about Nuclear annihilation as well as global warming in the 80s. Fast forward to today and both are still on the table. Climate catastrophes make geopolitical conflict more likely.

I thought the same with all these snide comments, we still have the threat of nuclear war at almost any minute. It never went away, why people think it has? I have no idea.

Mass normalization of deviance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalization_of_deviance

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#649
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

elf on the shelf is a frighteningly common indoctrination to a life of surveillance

I lifted an Elf on the Shelf box in a store, and it felt heavy for a stuffed toy. What's in there? Are those things WiFi enabled now?

Most of the one's I've seen also come with a book telling the story, that could easily be that heft.

Re: The teen mental illness epidemic is international (2023)

#650
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

elf on the shelf is a frighteningly common indoctrination to a life of surveillance

I lifted an Elf on the Shelf box in a store, and it felt heavy for a stuffed toy. What's in there? Are those things WiFi enabled now?

If you just lifted the box, it might have the book included. Traditionally, they're sold together, though I've seen the book sold on its own.
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