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If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

jasonbock.substack.com

41–50 of 69 posts

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#41
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest the whole article seems like backlink spam. If you look with your eyes at the rendered article, you'll see a link to the supplement at the top, some links to a book about carpenters when it says "carpenter", and a extended blurb about the supplement at the bottom. (the original was on a personal site: https://web.archive.org/web/20230325234744/http://www.jasonb... )

Oh, wow, the original is from 2004, with an update in 2013. This Substack article is backdated to the "Update" date in 2013, and it's the only article on the substack at all. I have a strong suspicion that Jason Bock did not create this substack, and someone is using his name and the content he posted years ago to push sketchy products.

May we change the HN link to the source article ?

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only this were hyperbole. I once interviewed with a startup whose process was: 1. Pass TripleByte (already puts you in top whatever percentage of SWEs) 2. Meet with 4 members of the company for an hour each, and if they all like you: 3. Create a 15 minute presentation on some code you worked on. It can be code from a current or past job, but that will probably reflect poorly on you, so go build something so you ca…

> used two levels of caching (Redis and a typical relational DB) to subvert rate limiting/IP blacklisting How do those subvert rate limiting / blacklisting?

The Robinhood API is of course the API for stock broker Robinhood. Their API, last I used it, probably could have been optimized to provide data in fewer API requests, but aside from that, there are many pieces of data that change constantly, like the current price of a stock. There are pieces of data that change occasionally, like the next earnings report date for a company. Then there are pieces of data that should never change, like a company's CUSIP (essentially the primary key in a database of stocks). When you create an app that relies on data from another API, there is usually a "setup" where all the data your app requires is brought in from the API. I was getting rate-limited during this process (downloading all my watchlists and current holdings, as well as my orders/transactions, metadata about the companies such as the next earnings date, and so forth).

By using Redis and MySQL, I minimized the number of calls the app has to make directly to the Robinhood API. For things like the next earnings date, which changes typically once per 90 days or so, I have Redis store the result of that endpoint from Robinhood for some number of days, probably not 90, but not 1. For things like the current price of a stock, Redis might store that for a minute or two, so that my app can "spam" for the latest prices (maybe I have a refresh button in the app) without triggering a 401 or 403 from the Robinhood API.

TLDR: Since rate limiting prevents my app from pulling all the data it needs at one time - it has to throttle requests - I don't want to have to wait a couple of minutes each time the app is started because it needs to download data from Robinhood, much of which probably hasn't changed since the last time I started the app.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#43
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, it doesn't take all that much work to size up a candidate and whether you can work together. You can get a good feel for them just by having a chat like normal people. Maximum half hour.

You do introduce bias but everyone prefers a quick hour instead of 5 layers of nonsense.

Agreed, it's difficult not to impart your own preferences on the process but most people appreciate avoiding the rigmarole.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#44
post #6

This seems like only 1 aspect of what's broken now. Interviewer: First, congratulations, out of the 13000 applications we received, our AI selected yours for further consideration. Now please take this test on the chemistry of lignin, and it's reactions. If you don't hear back with your results, it's because we decided not to persue a relationship at this time... After the test, we will ask you to build a mock tudor…

I see this kind of stuff and it makes me feel like I'm the crazy one for asking applicants to show me how they build a birdhouse and judging their merit on how well they do it.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#45
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

. Edit: might be a one off.

Do you know if these ads are injected or if the authors are doing this? This is really gross.

Briefly looking at a few other substack sites, I don't see anything like this, so I assume that the author added it.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#46
post #2

Reading this is enraging because it reminds me of an interview I had.. they kept asking me repeatedly over and over if I ever had specific experience with this very specific individual setup and circumstance that was particular to them only. Later I complained to the Director about this interview experience and he was good enough to meet with me to talk about it. He explained that they had no choice, that the VP had…

It was good of the Director to be honest with you at that point. He may have been risking his own job by doing so.

On the other hand, it would have been nice for anyone to have some humanity and put a stop to the nonsense rather than giving N candidates false hope.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#47
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those curious, #4, my presentation was about how I reverse engineered the Robinhood API, spoofed requests to get around their “security” This was probably against their TOS and even if not, trying to bypass security measures, no matter how weak, is unethical behavior, and possibly illegal. That would be a red flag in an hiring scenario since you were essentially bragging about breaking the law. Unless Robinhood…

It's not "security" in the hacking sense. Perhaps that was a poor word choice. So when you hit an API, the server can reject your request for any reason, typically a malformed request. Maybe a header it's expecting is missing, or the API key is invalid, something like that. With Robinhood's API, you can't simply provide your bearer token and hit the endpoint. There are MANY headers it is expecting, and if any are mis…

[deleted]

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#48

Very off-topic, but there's something very odd on that page. There's these meta tags: Then, the body contains: Dominate The Male Enhancement Niche Today with Aizen Power Looks like a link to a really sleazy ad, but the name of the product is put into metadata seemingly to improve its SEO.

Ask off as we’re talking about off topic substack shenanigans… I absolutely deplore the pop up on every single substack blog trying to get me to subscribe after, what, 100-200 words? I have no idea who the author is or what the article is even about at this point. I will not be subscribing. I’m definitely not logging in. It’s ridiculous and completely cheapens the content.

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was good of the Director to be honest with you at that point. He may have been risking his own job by doing so.

On the other hand, it would have been nice for anyone to have some humanity and put a stop to the nonsense rather than giving N candidates false hope.

[deleted]

Re: If Carpenters Were Hired Like Programmers

#50
post #27
post #6

This seems like only 1 aspect of what's broken now. Interviewer: First, congratulations, out of the 13000 applications we received, our AI selected yours for further consideration. Now please take this test on the chemistry of lignin, and it's reactions. If you don't hear back with your results, it's because we decided not to persue a relationship at this time... After the test, we will ask you to build a mock tudor…

> our AI selected yours for further consideration. GitHub now asks if you consent to AI review of your application. It doesn't say if not allowing AI review affects candidacy. Should we be writing resumes and cover letters to AIs?

Maybe we should be writing for the AIs.

Leaving GitHub aside, I generally feel that anything a candidate does that adds friction to the general flow of the process will affect the candidacy of the candidate.

I have no evidence for this whatsoever but if you consider a person with 100 applications in their inbox, and if an AI has pre-sorted 80% of them, then that person is _probably_ more likely to start with the AI sorted applications.

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